Hattermick
Member
710264 & 710269,reported doing test runs between Wembley and Milton Keynes last night. A good sign perhaps!
Passenger approval today granted for CAF 331.The Northern CAF Class 331 will be the baseline to compare against as it's also a completely new product to the UK. Testing seems to be more promising than this 710 farce too.
Contracts were announced on
Northern 331: January 22 2016
LO 710: June 19 2015
Meaning CAF have had 7 months fewer.
How long since the first units were built and ready for testing?Passenger approval today granted for CAF 331.
So a company with no recent experience of introducing electric rolling stock on the UK network can do it faster and more seamlessly than the biggest EMU supplier of the last decade.
How long since the first units were built and ready for testing?
First 331 unit delivered on 24 Jul 2018, meaning 7 months of testing before passenger approval.How long since the first units were built and ready for testing?
The big difference is that CAF are supplying units with an existing computer system not new one. The CAF TCMS is now the oldest being supplied for a current stock design which suggest they might have to think about a new TCMS at some point.Passenger approval today granted for CAF 331.
So a company with no recent experience of introducing electric rolling stock on the UK network can do it faster and more seamlessly than the biggest EMU supplier of the last decade.
They haven't exactly got far yet - most of the 345s have been built now but not all of them and the rate at which they've been required is very minimal due to Crossrail delays, so they've been in no rush. The 710 order isn't exactly enormous either. The big orders are the 720s and 701s which they've barely even started, I think one or two units of the former exist and that's literally it at this point. Only once they have the 710s sorted are they likely to start building the next fleets in earnest, which is a fair approach, but nonetheless, these delays are very little to do with manufacturing capacity - it's simply that the Aventra has taken a lot longer to get working as an entity than Bombardier anticipated.When has bombardier ever been actually reliable?? They are overworked with little time between making trains to Fix things that go wrong. Think they have bitten kore than they can chew with this new aventra platform
How soon would approval normally take after documentation being submitted? And how soon after that could they enter service? Are they fully tested on the GOBLIN?I noticed in RAIL this week that - apparently - the docs have done to the ORR for potential approval of the 710s. Which would be a remarkable step forward if approval is finally given.
How soon would approval normally take after documentation being submitted? And how soon after that could they enter service? Are they fully tested on the GOBLIN?
This doesn't really answer your questions but 710s seem to be out every weekday morning on the GOBLIN at the moment. .
Did any updates came about recently?
Last I heard was driver familiarization training taking place while instructor training is currently taking place but still the train suffers from some bugs but have been running on the GOBLIN and WCML alot in resent times.
But then again nothing concrete?
In effect, a travelling despatcher?Appreciate it takes a while to train a guard, but given the circumstances, would it have been possible to have a “guard-lite” on board whose sole responsibility was to open and close the doors, check no red light ahead and give the signal to start. That wouldn’t take much training surely? Absolutely all other safety aspects stay with the driver. I’m sure people will give lots of reasons why it couldn’t be done (union agreements etc), but it strikes me that people haven’t tried hard enough.
- TfL are still resistant to implementing any fallback scheme using older alternative rolling stock on the GOBLIN.
Other members of the forum have repeated ad nauseum why TfL cannot use older stock on the line: The lack of available stock with bodyside DOO cameras
In effect, a travelling despatcher?
Worth noting several of the Goblin User group are extremely pro guard so always try to push the other stock item when they know exactly what the reasons are. They can't accept LO's own data showed a drop in PTI incidents going from Guard to DOO on NLL etc. hence no return to a less safe mode of operation...Yes *I know*. I also fully understand the reasons. I was merely reporting what was tweeted out of the Travelwatch meeting. No need to shoot the messenger.
Unfortunately TfL have data showing that DOO is safer which they gathered during the change to DOO on the NLL. Try writing a safety case for a less safe mode of operation...Appreciate it takes a while to train a guard, but given the circumstances, would it have been possible to have a “guard-lite” on board whose sole responsibility was to open and close the doors, check no red light ahead and give the signal to start. That wouldn’t take much training surely? Absolutely all other safety aspects stay with the driver. I’m sure people will give lots of reasons why it couldn’t be done (union agreements etc), but it strikes me that people haven’t tried hard enough.
Appreciate it takes a while to train a guard, but given the circumstances, would it have been possible to have a “guard-lite” on board whose sole responsibility was to open and close the doors, check no red light ahead and give the signal to start. That wouldn’t take much training surely? Absolutely all other safety aspects stay with the driver. I’m sure people will give lots of reasons why it couldn’t be done (union agreements etc), but it strikes me that people haven’t tried hard enough.
But it's okay to shut the line (as was looking very likely a few months ago) and replace the service with buses! What a crazy world we live in.Unfortunately TfL have data showing that DOO is safer which they gathered during the change to DOO on the NLL. Try writing a safety case for a less safe mode of operation...
That's what I was thinking too. They're LO stations, so are already staffed from first to last train anyway. Surely in all the time this farce has gone on they could have trained them for dispatch.Or you just train the station staff at the affected stations, so all on the GOBLIN, to be able to dispatch DOO services.
That's what I was thinking too. They're LO stations, so are already staffed from first to last train anyway. Surely in all the time this farce has gone on they could have trained them for dispatch.