Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[Energy]

745s should be ETCS ready but I don’t know if they are.

Balinese and the train pick up equipment are really rather cheap. The expensive bit is all the clever stuff on the train, the RBC, the data, the design, and the entry into service.

The expensive stuff will already be on the 345s and if it isn't on the 720s and 745s and 755s then it would be fairly easy to fit. Makes far more sense to just fit ETCS than bother with a new system.

 

[Bikeman78]

Don't need that. With a little help from a very friendly driver - who assured me he was applying full power in his 360 - I recorded 0-60mph in 48.9s in 0,5 miles, and 0-95mph in 2min4.9secs and 2.16 miles on level track
On a different stretch of track, slightly downhill - then slightly uphill and a short level stretch - and no OLE voltage values to worry about, I recorded a 755/4 in diesel model achieving 0-60mph in 49.3 secs and 0.45 miles, and 95mph in 2 mins 1 sec at 2.05 miles.

There is absolutely nothing in it as far as I am concerned. The 755/4's in diesel are phenomenal and quicker than a 2+4 HST!!

The driver of the 360- also drives both variants of 755. Until the 755's are cleared south of Colchester, we will not be able to repeat the same acceleration test from the same station on the same piece of track. But here's hoping it might happen one day!

How long does a class 321 take to get to 60 mph? Or going further back, a class 312? For camparison the Dutch 1964 stock used to take around 50s to get to 60 whilst the slightly newer Sprinters (built 1975) do 0-70 in 40 seconds! That's on 1500V DC. We seem to be rather tight with out installed power in the UK.

 

[James James]

745s should be ETCS ready but I don’t know if they are.

Balinese and the train pick up equipment are really rather cheap. The expensive bit is all the clever stuff on the train, the RBC, the data, the design, and the entry into service.

They are: "Prepared for ETCS installation" from:
755: https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/feabmu0916e.pdf
745: https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/feaemu0818e.pdf
(And there are already a lot of of Flirts with ETCS, from some of the earlier SBB Flirts, newer SBB Flirts, Hungarian Flirts - and quite a few of the KISS's, which are likely to be running similar software.)

 

[Railperf]

How long does a class 321 take to get to 60 mph? Or going further back, a class 312? For camparison the Dutch 1964 stock used to take around 50s to get to 60 whilst the slightly newer Sprinters (built 1975) do 0-70 in 40 seconds! That's on 1500V DC. We seem to be rather tight with out installed power in the UK.

321's take around 64 seconds..but to 95mph ..well over 4 minutes. The Renatus 321s with AC traction systems seem barely any quicker to 60 mph but they carru extra weight due to aircon etc. The Renatus units are definitely better between 60 and 100mph - taking around 3 minutes.

That Dutch stock sounds crazy. Are you talking kph or mph?

 

[Bikeman78]

321's take around 64 seconds..but to 95mph ..well over 4 minutes. The Renatus 321s with AC traction systems seem barely any quicker to 60 mph but they carru extra weight due to aircon etc. The Renatus units are definitely better between 60 and 100mph - taking around 3 minutes.

That Dutch stock sounds crazy. Are you talking kph or mph?

Definitely mph. I thought I'd got it wrong at first so I did a few more timings to check.

 

[superjohn]

That Dutch stock sounds crazy. Are you talking kph or mph?

The Dutch SGM Sprinters are very nippy indeed. 1720hp for three cars, more than double the power of our class 313 from the same era.

 

[Railperf]

How long does a class 321 take to get to 60 mph? Or going further back, a class 312? For camparison the Dutch 1964 stock used to take around 50s to get to 60 whilst the slightly newer Sprinters (built 1975) do 0-70 in 40 seconds! That's on 1500V DC. We seem to be rather tight with out installed power in the UK.

Our Class 755/3 on electric does 0-70mph in 37 seconds , the 755/4 on electric takes 41 seconds, 745's - 50 seconds, 755/4 on diesel is 63 seconds, Class 360 is 67 seconds, while 321's are 91seconds!. As the Class 313 was mentioned above, you might be interested to note that they take 115 seconds to reach 70mph! Sorry, I have no figures for Class 312's etc as they were long retired when i started performance recording.
Are there any in preservation that could be given a good thrash along the GEML?

 

[samuelmorris]

Our Class 755/3 on electric does 0-70mph in 37 seconds , the 755/4 on electric takes 41 seconds, 745's - 50 seconds, 755/4 on diesel is 63 seconds, Class 360 is 67 seconds, while 321's are 91seconds!. As the Class 313 was mentioned above, you might be interested to note that they take 115 seconds to reach 70mph! Sorry, I have no figures for Class 312's etc as they were long retired when i started performance recording.
Are there any in preservation that could be given a good thrash along the GEML?

As far as I know, there wasn't a complete unit preserved.

 

[dk1]

Something anyone travelling will notice now are announcements in the down direction at Manningtree that the rearmost doors will not release. This is usually coach A first class which is fully in the platform. With ASDO now operating it is all geared up for when the stop board is moved back for better signal sighting. This however cannot take place until the legacy fleet have left the franchise.

 

[superjohn]

I take it GA and Stadler are aware of the issues with manual announcements? I am on 745104 right now and they are hopeless. „Wel....on boar...vice to...ich...ing at...Mann..eee...Ips...“ and so on.

I try not to say things like this but train announcements really aren’t rocket science!

 

[py_megapixel]

I take it GA and Stadler are aware of the issues with manual announcements? I am on 745104 right now and they are hopeless. „Wel....on boar...vice to...ich...ing at...Mann..eee...Ips...“ and so on.

I try not to say things like this but train announcements really aren’t rocket science!

How are the auto announcements doing?

 

[superjohn]

How are the auto announcements doing?

They are fine.

 

[samuelmorris]

Quite common, it's to do with the trigger levels on the microphone, I hear that on a lot of modern stock, Aventras, Desiro Cities, you name it.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Next Tuesday hopefully first day of 745 on Stanex with 2 diagrams

 

[dk1]

I take it GA and Stadler are aware of the issues with manual announcements? I am on 745104 right now and they are hopeless. „Wel....on boar...vice to...ich...ing at...Mann..eee...Ips...“ and so on.

I try not to say things like this but train announcements really aren’t rocket science!

Yeah it's known about. Several Stadler guys have been very surprised what a poor quality cab equipment was chosen. It looks good but...

 

[Bald Rick]

I take it GA and Stadler are aware of the issues with manual announcements? I am on 745104 right now and they are hopeless. „Wel....on boar...vice to...ich...ing at...Mann..eee...Ips...“ and so on.

I try not to say things like this but train announcements really aren’t rocket science!

That’s just the Norfolk accent.

 

[trebor79]

I take it GA and Stadler are aware of the issues with manual announcements? I am on 745104 right now and they are hopeless. „Wel....on boar...vice to...ich...ing at...Mann..eee...Ips...“ and so on.

I try not to say things like this but train announcements really aren’t rocket science!

Yeah it's known about. Several Stadler guys have been very surprised what a poor quality cab equipment was chosen. It looks good but...

Just needs the squelch adjusting. They are usually perfectly audible when the train is moving (and therefore a bit noisier), but chop in and out like that when it's stationary (so quieter).

 

[superjohn]

Just needs the squelch adjusting. They are usually perfectly audible when the train is moving (and therefore a bit noisier), but chop in and out like that when it's stationary (so quieter).

Actually that did cross my mind. On the journey to London in the morning the conductor appeared to have the cab window open as there was a lot of background white noise. Despite that the announcements were clear and unbroken. I’m not sure if that was done deliberately though.

 

[py_megapixel]

Just needs the squelch adjusting. They are usually perfectly audible when the train is moving (and therefore a bit noisier), but chop in and out like that when it's stationary (so quieter).

What's the squelch? Is that the point at which it cuts out because the system determines that nobody is speaking?

Because if so, that would explain why the auto announcements (prerecorded and play in their entirety no matter what) work but manual ones don't

 

[dk1]

What's the squelch? Is that the point at which it cuts out because the system determines that nobody is speaking?

Glad you asked that as I haven't a Scooby Doo.

 

[Randomer]

What's the squelch? Is that the point at which it cuts out because the system determines that nobody is speaking?

Because if so, that would explain why the auto announcements (prerecorded and play in their entirety no matter what) work but manual ones don't

Yes it is the lowest level that whatever equipment used to amplify the microphone signal will act on. E.g. below -40 Dba the signal strength from the microphone will not activate the amplification.

The balancing act is to have it set high enough you don't get background noise being amplified but low enough to take account that people will naturally speak quieter in low noise environments e.g. when the train is stationary. I find it interesting they have one at all if the microphone is press to talk with a button?

 

[trebor79]

Yes it is the lowest level that whatever equipment used to amplify the microphone signal will act on. E.g. below -40 Dba the signal strength from the microphone will not activate the amplification.

The balancing act is to have it set high enough you don't get background noise being amplified but low enough to take account that people will naturally speak quieter in low noise environments e.g. when the train is stationary. I find it interesting they have one at all if the microphone is press to talk with a button?

I doubt it's user adjustable, but there will be a setting somewhere that determines how sensitive it it.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

The cab microphone is an old fashioned bendy stick microphone on the desk rather than a telephone style handset, so I suppose there will be great variation as to how far someone leans in toward the stick microphone as opposed to holding a handset to ones ear

 

[dk1]

The cab microphone is an old fashioned bendy stick microphone on the desk rather than a telephone style handset, so I suppose there will be great variation as to how far someone leans in toward the stick microphone as opposed to holding a handset to ones ear

And they are getting twisted and bent into many many shapes. Ridiculous and unnecessary type of microphone.

 

[1D54]

I take it GA and Stadler are aware of the issues with manual announcements? I am on 745104 right now and they are hopeless. „Wel....on boar...vice to...ich...ing at...Mann..eee...Ips...“ and so on.

I try not to say things like this but train announcements really aren’t rocket science!

Getting exactly the same thing while sitting on the 14:27 Norwich - Stansted which has failed near Wymondham (755328) bloody infuriating!!

 

[F Great Eastern]

The microphones just don't look really fit for purpose, I don't know if it was something that they cut back on to keep the price down, but every time I have heard someone use one of them it's been hard to work out what they are saying because of the problems.

The fact it's still going on now suggests it's not going to be a quick fix else it would have been done already.

 

[1D54]

Getting exactly the same thing while sitting on the 14:27 Norwich - Stansted which has failed near Wymondham (755328) bloody infuriating!!

Managed to get the thing to Wymondham. Everyone off and back to Norwich whilst the offending 328 awaits a tow back. There are a couple of 47s and a 37 so it should be OK but the line is blocked until the rescue.

 

[py_megapixel]

Well, I guess we now have an answer to why GA got such a high spec interior when the rest of the country was getting nasty bright lighting and ironing boards - clearly they compromised on the cab equipment. I guess the logic is that the vast majority of people (including pretty much all of the travelling public and even much of this forum) will never use the cab.... but it still seems silly.

 

[dk1]

Managed to get the thing to Wymondham. Everyone off and back to Norwich whilst the offending 328 awaits a tow back. There are a couple of 47s and a 37 so it should be OK but the line is blocked until the rescue.

Heard a 37 thrashing out of Norwich Low Level approx 10mins ago.

 

[43096]

Heard a 37 thrashing out of Norwich Low Level approx 10mins ago.

Thunderbirds are GO!