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Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

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Pumbaa

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How?
(Sorry if I sound accusatory or rude, that's not my intention and I'm generally interested)
Because I know who was the final bidder when the bid was submitted in December 2015, and if I didn’t, I wouldn’t have been very good at my job.
 

dk1

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No worries mate, I appreciate dud gen won’t be from you per se!
Good Lord no. Great as the 745s are when you look at the extraordinary reliability rates of the 385s it does make me wonder what could have been.
 

86246

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I had my first trip on a Stansted variant of the 745 yesterday. I noticed that the onboard displays had the train layout the same as an Inter City 745, first class and a cafe bar at the front of the train.

As discussed on here recently, the PA system remains poor. Also for a while we will have to get used to an impressive 37 minutes past the hour arrival at Ipswich although with a 43 minutes past departure time. Overall I'm impressed by these units.
 

Railperf

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I had my first trip on a Stansted variant of the 745 yesterday. I noticed that the onboard displays had the train layout the same as an Inter City 745, first class and a cafe bar at the front of the train.

As discussed on here recently, the PA system remains poor. Also for a while we will have to get used to an impressive 37 minutes past the hour arrival at Ipswich although with a 43 minutes past departure time. Overall I'm impressed by these units.
Yes, but even a well driven Class 90 in good conditions could arrive in Ipswich by xx:38 as @dk1 will testify lol.:lol: There is sooooo much slack in the timetable it is hard not to arrive early!
 

0nlySam

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Judging hy Greater Anglia journey check train formation and catering updates - there appear to be at least a trio of 745/1s (stansted units being used on Norwich services - but no sign of any being used on Stansted services again today after Tuesday's 'launch'!

Assuming 7 or 8 units being used on the Norwich line - where are the remainder of the units?

It was a slightly frustrating experience last Sunday (2nd) travelling from LST to Ipswich and back on 1st Advance tickets - Journeycheck on the day suggested that there couldn't have been any more than 1 or 2 /0 units in service, the rest being /1's! I quite often go for 1st class to Ipswich as the advances are often only £3-4 more than standard, but definitely won't be bothering any time in the near future considering the complete lottery whether your booked train will even have it...
 

trebor79

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It was a slightly frustrating experience last Sunday (2nd) travelling from LST to Ipswich and back on 1st Advance tickets - Journeycheck on the day suggested that there couldn't have been any more than 1 or 2 /0 units in service, the rest being /1's! I quite often go for 1st class to Ipswich as the advances are often only £3-4 more than standard, but definitely won't be bothering any time in the near future considering the complete lottery whether your booked train will even have it...
You are entitled to a refund for the difference in price between your first class tickets and the corresponding tier of standard class. I've found GA to be very good at refunds in the past.
 

RailWonderer

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The entire 745 order has been strange. They ordered 10 for the IC even though there are 12 IC diagrams. So predictably they have to run /0s and /1s interchangeably (especially if there are wheel flats and units failing as often as comments on flickr suggest). Next, they have turned 1st class into a lottery - why could they have not fit the Stansted units with 1st? Capacity is not an issue on these trains and it is still lucrative for GA to keep the small core that travels in 1st. It all seems poorly thought out.
Then a failed /0 becomes a /1 and if that fails it becomes a 755 cancelled at Colchester. It all feels very clumsy.

I really believe GA should have fit the /1s with first, used the rest on GEML peaks and keep the 379s on Stansted on a well negotiated cheaper lease. But I won't comment on that. I'll leave it for speculative ideas that won't ever happen.
 
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306024

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No doubt the bid team thought they could get away with 8 class 745 diagrams for the core Norwich service. 100 min journey time and 20 minute turnrounds.

Unfortunately there are many other trains on the GEML to get in the way.
 

trebor79

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No doubt the bid team thought they could get away with 8 class 745 diagrams for the core Norwich service. 100 min journey time and 20 minute turnrounds.

Unfortunately there are many other trains on the GEML to get in the way.
Maybe there won't be in the future, if commuting doesn't return to previous levels. Maybe the core Norwich service will go to 3 trains every 2 hours. If the demand isn't there something will change.
Doesn't change the fact the bid was messed up of course!
 

justenyau

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No doubt the bid team thought they could get away with 8 class 745 diagrams for the core Norwich service. 100 min journey time and 20 minute turnrounds.

Unfortunately there are many other trains on the GEML to get in the way.
I guess all trains can depart from nrw or lst 10 mins late than usual to save time?

Even though additionally calling at stowmarket, the train can still arrive on time
 

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170TurboFan

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According to Journey Check it looks like they are trying again with the 745/1s on Stanstead Airport. Hopefully a more successful run
 

lordbusiness

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The entire 745 order has been strange. They ordered 10 for the IC even though there are 12 IC diagrams. So predictably they have to run /0s and /1s interchangeably (especially if there are wheel flats and units failing as often as comments on flickr suggest). Next, they have turned 1st class into a lottery - why could they have not fit the Stansted units with 1st? Capacity is not an issue on these trains and it is still lucrative for GA to keep the small core that travels in 1st. It all seems poorly thought out.
Then a failed /0 becomes a /1 and if that fails it becomes a 755 cancelled at Colchester. It all feels very clumsy.

I really believe GA should have fit the /1s with first, used the rest on GEML peaks and keep the 379s on Stansted on a well negotiated cheaper lease. But I won't comment on that. I'll leave it for speculative ideas that won't ever happen.

I don't believe the Bid Team were totally to blame- the well known railway experts at the DfT also had some say in the spec for the 745/1's.

You are absolutely right though - they are the wrong fit for the LST- NRW, absolutely useless for the business traveller and not much better for the family leisure market either having no tables. The crazy thing is that losing the tables, catering and 1st gave a net increase of........10 seats.
 

trebor79

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I don't believe the Bid Team were totally to blame- the well known railway experts at the DfT also had some say in the spec for the 745/1's.

You are absolutely right though - they are the wrong fit for the LST- NRW, absolutely useless for the business traveller and not much better for the family leisure market either having no tables. The crazy thing is that losing the tables, catering and 1st gave a net increase of........10 seats.
Well that's because there are bigger luggage stacks in the /1's. If the rest of the fit had been left as per the /0's then there would have been less seats. Really they should have ordered another 4 or 5 /0's to cover all the diagrams and have 1 or 2 spare.
 

20atthemagnet

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103 completely dead at liverpool street. Thunderbird to drag...as per the Forest Gate failure the coupling adapter doesn't fit..oh dear.
 

47421

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106 on 0940 LivSt Stansted Apt today. The level boarding on downside at Stortford pretty impressive. Still a bit of a gap but vast improvement on the big gap and step up/down on 379s / 317s
 

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Bletchleyite

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The doormat edging looks like a big bump too. The FLIRT is capable of having the gap bridge go all the way across, so why haven't we specified it like that, I wonder?
 

trebor79

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I think that's an optical illusion on the format edging. My memory is that it's flush, not bezelled like it appears in the photo.
 

samuelmorris

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I think that's an optical illusion on the format edging. My memory is that it's flush, not bezelled like it appears in the photo.
I've seen several other rolling stock doorways that look like that and they're usually flush, so I'd assume that's the case too.

£££££
Definitely not - the 'ramps' extend out and then retract afterwards. Having the ability to edge detect and retract would be more expensive, not less. Nonetheless the gaps it leaves are normally smaller than that I thought... Unless of course it's fully extended in that photo and that platform gap is unusually large.
 

MrPIC

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I don't believe the Bid Team were totally to blame- the well known railway experts at the DfT also had some say in the spec for the 745/1's.

You are absolutely right though - they are the wrong fit for the LST- NRW, absolutely useless for the business traveller and not much better for the family leisure market either having no tables. The crazy thing is that losing the tables, catering and 1st gave a net increase of........10 seats.
As I understand it they'll only work on Norwich trains once or twice per day, early am or late pm to cycle the Stansted units back to crown point, once the whole fleet is in service proper it should be more or less entirely each subclass on its respective route
 

py_megapixel

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As I understand it they'll only work on Norwich trains once or twice per day, early am or late pm to cycle the Stansted units back to crown point, once the whole fleet is in service proper it should be more or less entirely each subclass on its respective route
But Norwich is a 4 hour round trip so that will require 8 diagrams to provide a 2tph service. Without significant reliability improvements it isn't going to happen.
 

Energy

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But Norwich is a 4 hour round trip so that will require 8 diagrams to provide a 2tph service. Without significant reliability improvements it isn't going to happen.
I guess we will see, Stadlers are meant to be reliable so hopefully it will get better. The 755s look to have gotten much more reliable.
 

306024

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As I understand it they'll only work on Norwich trains once or twice per day, early am or late pm to cycle the Stansted units back to crown point, once the whole fleet is in service proper it should be more or less entirely each subclass on its respective route

That’s the theory. Working it out from real time trains when the original timetable was loaded the 05.00 Norwich to Liverpool St and 20.00 Liverpool St to Norwich looked to be 745/1s, different on a Sunday.

Whether running the 745/1 fleet on intensive Stansted Express diagrams 115 miles from their maintenance base is the wisest decision, time will tell.

But Norwich is a 4 hour round trip so that will require 8 diagrams to provide a 2tph service. Without significant reliability improvements it isn't going to happen.

Only if you can produce a timetable that meets that spec. There are other services that need to fit in too. It is currently a 5 hour round trip requiring 10 diagrams, so perhaps the new timetable will be a 4.5 hour cycle requiring 9 units.
 

jopsuk

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Unless of course it's fully extended in that photo and that platform gap is unusually large.
Failry sure that's maximum extension- the gap at Stortford on the Down is big, one I've used a few times with 317s/379s and found needing extra care
 
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