Class 8̶0̶4̶ 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

James James

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Can the high voltage AC from a second pantograph be cabled over to a transformer in another carriage to avoid needing all the equipment twice?
I do not understand this argument at all. Flirts have dual (or more) transformers precisely to add redundancy - even though a lot of units may only have a single pantograph. You'd think any unit should do this. To be fair, this may be less critical for bi-modes - but still nice to have the redundancy.
 
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Domh245

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I do not understand this argument at all. Flirts have dual (or more) transformers precisely to add redundancy - even though a lot of units may only have a single pantograph. You'd think any unit should do this. To be fair, this may be less critical for bi-modes - but still nice to have the redundancy.
There's a tradeoff to be had. Transformers aren't light, and you don't tend to get many failures. Certainly in the UK at least most multiple transformer units are there because a single transformer wouldn't be powerful enough
 

edwin_m

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The 22x traction curve was downgraded deliberately to reduce fuel consumption and engine life etc. But i've not heard anything about engines being deliberately shut down for that purpose. And they don't have the same engine optimisation system as the Class 185's either that will shut down an engine when not required. That is a novelty - maintaining 100mph across the York plain with one of the engines deliberately shutting down. I understand they can't be restarted until the unit comes to a stand though.
They were fitted with an energy saving mode similar to the 185s: https://www.breakingtravelnews.com/...s-the-carbon-cutter-for-east-midlands-trains/
The introduction of this system allows the number of diesel engines on the train to be matched to the duty required to reduce diesel consumption, noise, emissions and maintenance costs. It is believed to be the first retrospective application of this type of technology in the UK.
No idea if it is still active.
 

LowLevel

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Kneedown

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It's the reason you see so many complaints about passengers sitting with just emergency lighting, no plug sockets and no air con in summer if the driver forgets to disable it, even worse if the vehicle gets stuck in energy saving mode for the trip.
Perfectly possible to start a 222's engines on the move. If one is out for a journey it's either isolated, poorly, or the TMS is glitching.
 

NewSt

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swt_passenger

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Wish I knew what the reason for total reclassification was...
“Total reclassification”? Clearly any number in the range 803 - 899 could be chosen, noting the way other class numbers have been allocated completely out of logical sequence for quite a few years now...
 

Ethano92

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That tweet would also suggest they'll have plug doors sitting flush with the bodyside as opposed to the original concept art for the units which had the standard sliding doors. A welcome change IMO
 

37057

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It's the reason you see so many complaints about passengers sitting with just emergency lighting, no plug sockets and no air con in summer if the driver forgets to disable it, even worse if the vehicle gets stuck in energy saving mode for the trip.
Nor sure what units you mean but just to clarify a few things about the 185s here...

The 110v DC battery output circuits on each vehicle are connected together, so lighting won't be affected if an engine is not running. Emergency lighting operates when there are no engines or no shore supply and the unit goes into a load-shedding state.

The plug socket supply is derived from the 400v AC 3-phase system so this won't be affected as contactors close to allow crossfeeding from an adjacent vehicle's alternator. Same goes for some of the equipment in the toilets (hand dryer etc).

The HVACs also run off the 400v AC 3-phase system. They do run when there's an engine not running but they operate in redundancy mode when being cross-fed, meaning only one cooling circuit per end of the saloon and only one third of roof heaters per end of the saloon (no bodyside convection heaters either), both modes run with supply air fans on low speed.

I don't know the driving policies or how often this is done but ECO mode can be disabled easily enough.
 

YorksLad12

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I agree to an extent, but the Old Oak Common Name won't be meaningless to many people who worked on or used HSTs. I definitely agree that the IET name can be confusing, seeing as some people think it's actually an IEP because of the Intercity Express Programme.
Whilst Gary would be a fun name, it wouldn't have meaning unless your name is Gary. Most names are for marketing purposes.
Having said that, I doubt the 804s will have a name, they don't really need one as they are going to be working under a branded service of EMR Intercity, so why confuse things more?
Speaking as a Gary, this is a dreadful idea. I don't want all the complaints when there's a no-show - I don't have the patience of John Lewis ;)
 

Nym

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I agree to an extent, but the Old Oak Common Name won't be meaningless to many people who worked on or used HSTs. I definitely agree that the IET name can be confusing, seeing as some people think it's actually an IEP because of the Intercity Express Programme.
Whilst Gary would be a fun name, it wouldn't have meaning unless your name is Gary. Most names are for marketing purposes.
Having said that, I doubt the 804s will have a name, they don't really need one as they are going to be working under a branded service of EMR Intercity, so why confuse things more?
They're actually not all IEPs, only the 800s and 801s are IEPs, the 802's equivilant to IEP is WoE, all of them are IETs.

Intercity Express Train
West of England
Intercity Express Programme
 

greatvoyager

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They're actually not all IEPs, only the 800s and 801s are IEPs, the 802's equivilant to IEP is WoE, all of them are IETs.

Intercity Express Train
West of England
Intercity Express Programme
I was referring to the fact that some people I know have referred to these EMR units as IEPs.
 

edwin_m

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Aren't they all SETs (Super Express Trains) also? And AT200s?

Only a matter of time before someone starts complaining we are using the three-letter station codes without explaining them.
 

Domh245

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Aren't they all SETs (Super Express Trains) also? And AT200s?

Only a matter of time before someone starts complaining we are using the three-letter station codes without explaining them.
They're all AT300s, AT200 is the class 385 family. I was under the impression that SET was the name of hitachi's first proposal for IEP (the version with power cars) but it seems like this name was being used until the operators introduced their own names
 

Inthewest

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I wonder if the new front end design will look a bit like this:

Screenshot_20200501_114929.jpg

I guess there's been nothing else about the design so far?
 

Domh245

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Except that we've had two renderings of the units revealed, and they don't look much like that. They look like pretty much all other 80x to date with a slightly shorter/stubbier nose




It'll no doubt be somewhere between the two of those - possibly a bit more like the latter than the former, but I can be pretty confident it won't be like those in that image, which seem to be distinctly 395 based
 
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On the lower of the two images shown, the front passenger door seems to be further forward than on the upper one.

IEPs (and presumably their direct derivatives in class 802) were designed for a maximum speed of 140mph, whereas I guess those being built for EMR will only be for a maximum of 125mph; does this mean that the unusable passenger space in cab-ended vehicles can be reduced in length?
 

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