GWR Class 800

[83G/84D]

Class 800’s 800304 - 6 all out in passenger service today whilst 802001 is on a Paddington to Par test / training run.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

There was some discussion around this - but the suggestion had originally been dismissed as the reinforced OLE for 125mph changeover wasn’t being installed at Wantage. If it’s been confirmed they’ve sorted it and signed off 125mph Diesel-only running that’s good news!

Or is the raise it shortly afterward during station duties at Swindon/Didcot/wherever or at the next reinforced OLE zone at Moreton Cutting on the Up?

My understanding is that in the Down direction, trains stopping at Didcot will lower the pan in the platform, whereas non-stopping trains will do so on the fly at Moreton Cutting as-now. They will raise the pan after passing Steventon bridge. Therefore the time impact is virtually nil for fliers, and the stopping trains take about 30-60 seconds longer to accelerate on diesel before the electric takes over.

On the up, all trains will drop pan on the fly, early enough that if the system fails, the driver can brake for the 60mph TSR. Pan will then be raised at Didcot (stopping) or Moreton (non-stopping.)

 

[Sirgerbil]

Sneak peek

 

[DanNCL]

Sneak peek

Is that the one that's to be displayed in Newcastle's Discovery Museum temporarily?

 

[Thunderer]

Sneak peek

Bland and boring. Unimaganative. Surely they could have come up with a better livery than this? A line and brand synonymous with colourful, record-breaking steam locomotives of the past like Flying Scotsman and Mallard. Duck Egg Blue, Apple Green?

 

[Domh245]

Bland and boring. Unimaganative. Surely they could have come up with a better livery than this? A line and brand synonymous with colourful, record-breaking steam locomotives of the past like Flying Scotsman and Mallard. Duck Egg Blue, Apple Green?

The actual livery is reported to be this, that livery (and the fact it's a single vehicle on a low loader) is because that one is off to the "Great Exhibition of the North". Coming back to the actual livery, the fact that it isn't just DfT plain white is remarkable in itself.

 

[Thunderer]

The actual livery is reported to be this, that livery (and the fact it's a single vehicle on a low loader) is because that one is off to the "Great Exhibition of the North". Coming back to the actual livery, the fact that it isn't just DfT plain white is remarkable in itself.

I see..a slight improvement on the colour scheme I originally commented on, but still quite disappointing considering LNER's rich history. I think the DFt have missed a trick here. A brand new train "Azuma" in a great colour scheme could be an advertisers dream as was the HST when it first came out. The ECML will have extra capacity with these trains, so they need to draw more passengers on to these brand new trains to make them pay long term. I think you are spot on, they are just not interested and will franchise it off to private hsnds again as soon as they are able. Sad really.

 

[jimm]

I see..a slight improvement on the colour scheme I originally commented on, but still quite disappointing considering LNER's rich history. I think the DFt have missed a trick here. A brand new train "Azuma" in a great colour scheme could be an advertisers dream as was the HST when it first came out. The ECML will have extra capacity with these trains, so they need to draw more passengers on to these brand new trains to make them pay long term. I think you are spot on, they are just not interested and will franchise it off to private hsnds again as soon as they are able. Sad really.

The "Inter City 125" was an advertisers' dream when it came out because it had a name that said all anyone needed to know about what the train was supposed to do and looked the part.

The 800s may look the part but on East Coast are going to be saddled with a 'brand' invented by wags in Virgin's marketing department or some consultants who just looked up various Japanese words on Wikipedia and sounds like it should be on a new Nissan car. I had hoped it would have been binned, to erase all trace of the Stagecoach/Virgin regime, but sadly it appears not.

Given the size of that branding, as opposed to the LNER logo - itself in essence just an echo of the old GNER lettering - Joe Public will no doubt think the trains are run by a company called Azuma, in the same way that many still think Virgin runs CrossCountry. The Adelante branding died a fairly swift death on FGW in the early 2000s - hopefully Azuma goes the same way.

The DfT doesn't give a stuff about LNER's rich history and so long as the Tories are in charge a new franchise contest is guaranteed.

 

[samuelmorris]

I assume the intention is for the new franchise operator to carry on the Azuma name when they take over. By the time the full fleet is introduced the route is likely to have already been re-privatised.

 

[Pete_uk]

Yet another Class 800 'review'

Caught a 9 car for a four minutes journey today from Stroud to Stonehouse.

Right, the seats. They seem to be comfortable providing you sit upright in a certain position. Other than that I can see why people would call them hard. It wouldn't be comfortable to slouch or sit at an angle.

When I sat down I did wonder if carriage J was a engine carriage. When it revved up I was left in no doubt. I could hear it and feel it. Now, it's not like a class 150, more like a smooth 158 without the whine. There was a bit of vibration and after a about 30 or so seconds there was another sound and feeling kick in as if something had started up. At one point the acceleration curve had my eyes wide open. They definitely 'go like stink' for a short time. I had the sensation of feeling the tracks more, as if a bit more damping is needed somewhere.

I got up from my seat and stood by the door where a member of staff was standing to let us off and the good folks of Stonehouse on. I comically tried to open the window, "How do you open the windows on these then?"
"We don't have that luxury, unfortunately" came the reply. As I looked around he also commented that there had already been bits falling off the 800's.


My mother thought the train was wonderful. She even commented "It looks like a bullet train".

 

[jimm]

I assume the intention is for the new franchise operator to carry on the Azuma name when they take over. By the time the full fleet is introduced the route is likely to have already been re-privatised.

But if that new franchise operator was First Group, what name might they prefer to use...Intercity Express Train, perhaps?

 

[samuelmorris]

Perhaps, but wasn't the intention for branding to be carried forward between franchise changes these days? Or was that only for certain areas?

 

[DanNCL]

There is currently a driving coach on display outside the Discovery Museum in Newcastle. It's there as part of the Great Exhibition of the North.

I'm uncertain which unit this coach is from as it didn't appear to have been numbered. I'm also uncertain whether this is a DTPF or DTPS, as the windows are all covered so it could be either.

 

[800001]

There is currently a driving coach on display outside the Discovery Museum in Newcastle. It's there as part of the Great Exhibition of the North.

I'm uncertain which unit this coach is from as it didn't appear to have been numbered. I'm also uncertain whether this is a DTPF or DTPS, as the windows are all covered so it c
Iould be either.

It should be DTPS from set 800107.

 

[ash39]

I see..a slight improvement on the colour scheme I originally commented on, but still quite disappointing considering LNER's rich history. I think the DFt have missed a trick here. A brand new train "Azuma" in a great colour scheme could be an advertisers dream as was the HST when it first came out. The ECML will have extra capacity with these trains, so they need to draw more passengers on to these brand new trains to make them pay long term. I think you are spot on, they are just not interested and will franchise it off to private hsnds again as soon as they are able. Sad really.

100% agree. Branding and appearance has a lot of potential to increase numbers of discretionary travellers, and yet it has been totally overlooked. Looks cheap, tacky and uninspiring.

 

[Roger100]

100% agree. Branding and appearance has a lot of potential to increase numbers of discretionary travellers, and yet it has been totally overlooked. Looks cheap, tacky and uninspiring.

As a passenger who travels between London and the North East (where I live), I'm not particularly bothered about branding. What I care about more is being able to sit in my reserved seat at KGX, and travel home without being disturbed by dozens of drunks getting on at York.

This LNER is not the old LNER, in fact most passengers are too old to remember the proper LNER. But I would have hoped the Azuma name would be downplayed. The current GWR have largely avoided such things by sticking to consistent branding across their fleet.

 

[gallafent]

I had the sensation of feeling the tracks more, as if a bit more damping is needed somewhere.

I'm inclined to agree on this point. I find it particularly noticeable at high speed with a lot if “jiggling”, rumble, and sudden realignments. Feels much less “flowing” than an HST. Since this could of course all be in my imagination … I wonder if anybody has used a nice accelerometer / data logger to compare the ride of an 800 with that of an HST over the same piece of track at (as far as possible) the same speed … it would be very interesting to know the results, if so! Likewise the noise levels (in the middle of a coach, say).

 

[Master29]

100% agree. Branding and appearance has a lot of potential to increase numbers of discretionary travellers, and yet it has been totally overlooked. Looks cheap, tacky and uninspiring.

People don`t really care about branding. Given the repeated screw ups on the East Coast line all we want is a service that delivered. I couldn`t care less if my train was turd shaped provided it got me to wherever and was a good service. Word of mouth is what matters more when it comes to rail travel. The Virgin brand looked good but never delivered.

 

[D1009]

Branding is about attracting more business. If you've already got more business than you cope with, it's not really relevant.

 

[83G/84D]

The IET's start running to Devon and Cornwall at the end of July, diagrams are shown in the allocations, diagrams and timetables section under "IEP initial diagrams and allocations" thread.

 

[ash39]

People don`t really care about branding. Given the repeated screw ups on the East Coast line all we want is a service that delivered. I couldn`t care less if my train was turd shaped provided it got me to wherever and was a good service. Word of mouth is what matters more when it comes to rail travel. The Virgin brand looked good but never delivered.

Of course for regular users the service and getting a seat is the only thing that matters, but I'm talking about discretionary travellers.

When I was a kid, my parents didn't drive and we got the train on holiday to places like Skegness and Devon. Even after my dad got a car, I pestered them to keep using the train because I was fascinated with trains and the InterCity brand in particular.

You can create a whole generation of rail travellers with a strong brand. It's not to be underestimated.

 

[destere]

People don`t really care about branding. Given the repeated screw ups on the East Coast line all we want is a service that delivered. I couldn`t care less if my train was turd shaped provided it got me to wherever and was a good service. Word of mouth is what matters more when it comes to rail travel. The Virgin brand looked good but never delivered.

Branding goes much further than a logo and livery, but the visuals do form a key part of the brand and what it is trying to convey. It does matter: people do take notice of it even if it's subliminal. Word of mouth? What people say to each other is influenced, in part, by branding. Some people more than others, sure.

It's clear that people want a railway the just works, and would take that over a paint job and fluffy ad copywriting, but an operator would be stacking the cards in their favour by also building a good brand. Both are possible, and indeed desirable.

Branding is about attracting more business. If you've already got more business than you cope with, it's not really relevant.

It's also about keeping that business. The railways may not be so competitive on branding, as say an airline, as there is huge [relatively] captive user base. However clearly there is scope to drive more business; added capacity, new services, off-peak ticket sales, bolt-ons such as food/drink etc. It all matters.

A good brand will also help you in times of trouble. A trusted brand that people connect with will be given the benefit of the doubt more that one that is uninspiring. Sure, this is a rail operator, so it's automatically low on the sympathy list in a general sense, however it still matters.

Branding is one of those things that most people don't fully understand, yet it affects all of us. If you say that branding doesn't matter, then you don't understand branding.

 

[Master29]

Of course for regular users the service and getting a seat is the only thing that matters, but I'm talking about discretionary travellers.

When I was a kid, my parents didn't drive and we got the train on holiday to places like Skegness and Devon. Even after my dad got a car, I pestered them to keep using the train because I was fascinated with trains and the InterCity brand in particular.

You can create a whole generation of rail travellers with a strong brand. It's not to be underestimated.

I agree. I enjoyed rail journeys in much the same way as a kid and it did have an affect on rail interest but I wouldn`t have called inter city a brand as such. You do have a point though.

 

[387star]

There is currently a driving coach on display outside the Discovery Museum in Newcastle. It's there as part of the Great Exhibition of the North.

I'm uncertain which unit this coach is from as it didn't appear to have been numbered. I'm also uncertain whether this is a DTPF or DTPS, as the windows are all covered so it could be either.

What a weird livery

 

[jimm]

Suspect it may be an attempt to combine a former Japanese Railways Shinkansen livery with the silver-grey shades used on LNER Class A4s that worked the Silver Jubilee train in the 1930s - and fit in with the DfT's fetish for trains painted grey.

Series 100 Shinkansen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Series_Shinkansen#/media/File:100_V9_Grand_Hikari_Tokyo_199701.jpg

A4 Silver Link

https://picclick.co.uk/Bachmann-oo-Gauge-31-950X-Lner-4-6-2-A4-silver-192521404011.html

 

[800001]

What a weird livery

That is not the livery that will go Into service. It is advertising livery purely for the newcastle exhibition.

 

[Roger100]

Branding goes much further than a logo and livery, but the visuals do form a key part of the brand and what it is trying to convey. It does matter: people do take notice of it even if it's subliminal. Word of mouth? What people say to each other is influenced, in part, by branding. Some people more than others, sure.

It's clear that people want a railway the just works, and would take that over a paint job and fluffy ad copywriting, but an operator would be stacking the cards in their favour by also building a good brand. Both are possible, and indeed desirable.



It's also about keeping that business. The railways may not be so competitive on branding, as say an airline, as there is huge [relatively] captive user base. However clearly there is scope to drive more business; added capacity, new services, off-peak ticket sales, bolt-ons such as food/drink etc. It all matters.

A good brand will also help you in times of trouble. A trusted brand that people connect with will be given the benefit of the doubt more that one that is uninspiring. Sure, this is a rail operator, so it's automatically low on the sympathy list in a general sense, however it still matters.

Branding is one of those things that most people don't fully understand, yet it affects all of us. If you say that branding doesn't matter, then you don't understand branding.

Branding may have an effect where there is a choice, but with railways there tends not to be much choice. I often travel from my village in the north east to the south, and often back again the same day. I use the train as it's far less stressful, is quicker, and cheaper than driving. Going by bus takes far too long, and flying is too costly and inconvenient.

My rail choice is either Hartlepool to Kings Cross by Grand Central, or Durham to Kings Cross by Virgin/LNER. The latter has earlier and later trains, giving me more time down south. The former is cheaper, and car parking at Hartlepool is a fraction of that at Durham. The vehicle from Durham is usually HST out and 225 set back, from Hartlepool it's now a class 180.

Brand just doesn't play any part. I'm not going to pay more and suffer inconvenience just because there is a pretty paint job on the outside, or a Deltic hauling the train. What concerns me most is the cost, convenience and reliability.

Up here there is one brand with a reputation - Northern. Even if their timetables were not a mess as they currently are, they are on strike so often, including today. And 250+ miles in a Pacer does not appeal but in any case I'd think twice before buy an advance ticket for a Northern journey. The other brand I remember well is British Railways. I suffered their absolutely dire service to school and back, and then to work and back before I got my own transport. I defeats me why heritage steam and Tornado carry such a brand today.

 

[dp21]

That is not the livery that will go Into service. It is advertising livery purely for the newcastle exhibition.

Indeed, and the doors are the most obvious way of telling that - look at the doors. The rear one couldn't be any less RVAR/PRM compliant!

 

[The_Engineer]

The other brand I remember well is British Railways. I suffered their absolutely dire service to school and back, and then to work and back before I got my own transport. I defeats me why heritage steam and Tornado carry such a brand today.

Rose tinted spectacles are very much in fashion! And younger people just do not appreciate how dire it was......

 

[pt_mad]

Yet another Class 800 'review'

Caught a 9 car for a four minutes journey today from Stroud to Stonehouse.

Right, the seats. They seem to be comfortable providing you sit upright in a certain position. Other than that I can see why people would call them hard. It wouldn't be comfortable to slouch or sit at an angle.

When I sat down I did wonder if carriage J was a engine carriage. When it revved up I was left in no doubt. I could hear it and feel it. Now, it's not like a class 150, more like a smooth 158 without the whine. There was a bit of vibration and after a about 30 or so seconds there was another sound and feeling kick in as if something had started up. At one point the acceleration curve had my eyes wide open. They definitely 'go like stink' for a short time. I had the sensation of feeling the tracks more, as if a bit more damping is needed somewhere.

I got up from my seat and stood by the door where a member of staff was standing to let us off and the good folks of Stonehouse on. I comically tried to open the window, "How do you open the windows on these then?"
"We don't have that luxury, unfortunately" came the reply. As I looked around he also commented that there had already been bits falling off the 800's.


My mother thought the train was wonderful. She even commented "It looks like a bullet train".

I too have had a first ride on a class 800. In fact two rides, today. Now I had really high hopes as I so want this train to live up to the standards of a HST and was anticipating that they would have ultra similar interiors.

From the outside the train is spot on imo. I like the exterior doors ,even though they're sliding, I like the step, and I like the bleep bleep bleep bleep when the doors open. They look very solid and stylish.

They sound great from the platform when they move off. Especially in electric mode. There is a real impression of electric power and smoothness given by the sound. I was impressed. Sounds better than a Pendolino when moving off I think.

As for the interior. Yes the colour of the seats is a little dull. But it's not bad by any means and if I wasnt comparing it to a HST I'd say it lived up to Chiltern Mainline standards. The vestible areas look solid and heavy duty. The coach interiors look neutral and I think it was wise choosing grey over white (or off white or cream) for a lot of the plastics. Grey should stand the test of time better. They seem to have gone for a neutral white for the lighting, which I think works well. I would even say it makes the coaches feel even lighter than they probably already would if they had warm white lighting like the Pendolinos have .It's more like airline lighting and I think it works.

Now the seat comfort. And I had heard several stories from friends about how hard they supposedly were. Well after trying today, they are hard, there's no doubt about it or getting around it, they're hard. But having had a good look at the seat they're pretty thick with a lot of foam or cushioning or whatever inside. So it makes me wonder whether they've chosen a really really firm type of foam with no springs rather than its the base of the seat that can be felt. I think it's an ultra firm foam. I did wonder whether this is to future proof the seats meaning they last longer as all the weight and people's bounce will make them less firm over time so they will perhaps last longer? Possibly, could this be the case?

The other thing that struck me regards the seats is that the seat covers are a sort of cloth. They're not velour as is the case on very nearly all train seats (historically anyway). They are a sort of car seat style cloth. Again I'm not sure why this is? Maybe they think they will wear better? Or maybe it's been proven car seat type fabrics last longer? In my opinion the fabric doesn't look or feel as comfortable on the seat as velour. They do seem to have started to wear pretty quickly. Several of the seats I looked at had dark visible stains on, probably coffee. Like if you spilled coffee on a car seat. And I can't help but think velour covers like on FGW HSTs wouldn't show marks like this in the way a carpet wouldn't. Whether this cloth material absorbs less dust, could be, as I'd imagine if you patted the seat there'd probsbly be less dust as the fabric looks to be more dense and less breathable. Hope that makes sense. I can't help but wonder why Hitachi didn't just use the same seat they have on class 395 javelins? They are velour and not particularly hard.

The other thing I don't really get is why the trim above the windows (where the reservations are) is sort of neon London Midland/Central Trains Green? GWR Brand is dark green and this just doesn't match. Bit tacky imo but it's only nitpicking really. Also neither set I went on had working reservation screen but one set did have reservation cards? Don't know why this was?

Looking along the coach from one end to another the shape looks very similar to that of a MK4 to the naked eye. The dimensions and windows look similar which I like.

All in all I loved travelling on this train for the first time and I was still excited pleased and impressed. It's a smooth ride and I didn't feel when it went from Diesel to Electric mode. Diesel mode felt very smooth, much smoother than any other DMU I can recall and yes we appeared to have an engine under our coach both times.

I tried to pick out when the pantograph was lowered (raised coming back) but I couldn't .And we didn't stop at Didcot.