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GWR Class 800

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Bletchleyite

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Interesting that a photo of a 387 is posted above - I personally think the GWR 387 interior is *vastly* superior to the 800 in almost every way. The only place the 800 wins out is the luggage rack.

A glorified suburban EMU being better than a high-cost InterCity train...that's saying something.
 
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Apparently RMT have now also withdrawn from the agreement on catering staff acting as lead on sets working in multiple. For modern trains why is there such a panic on using them as DOO on existing routes, having catering staff acting as lead and such. If they are inherently unsafe they shouldn't be used and it just shows how badly the procurement was. I know they added to many DOO cameras to them for a start.
 

JN114

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Apparently RMT have now also withdrawn from the agreement on catering staff acting as lead on sets working in multiple. For modern trains why is there such a panic on using them as DOO on existing routes, having catering staff acting as lead and such. If they are inherently unsafe they shouldn't be used and it just shows how badly the procurement was. I know they added to many DOO cameras to them for a start.

It will be interesting to see what justification RMT are using from withdrawing from an agreement not many months they themselves heralded as very good for its members. Customer Hosts undertaking FSL duties get a significant wage enhancement when they do so. I sincerely hope they’re not just picking a fight and causing disruption for customers for no reason...
 
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It will be interesting to see what justification RMT are using from withdrawing from an agreement not many months they themselves heralded as very good for its members. Customer Hosts undertaking FSL duties get a significant wage enhancement when they do so. I sincerely hope they’re not just picking a fight and causing disruption for customers for no reason...

Wouldn’t be the first time, I left the RMT as it was just a strike mongering, nit picking, disruptive organisation. When someone from the RMT rang me to ask why I’d left, they just put the phone down when I told them, no discussion, no attempt to persuade me otherwise.
 

gallafent

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Interesting that a photo of a 387 is posted above - I personally think the GWR 387 interior is *vastly* superior to the 800 in almost every way. The only place the 800 wins out is the luggage rack.

A glorified suburban EMU being better than a high-cost InterCity train...that's saying something.

I'm strongly inclined to agree, though I'm waiting until I have enough experience of the 387s before finally deciding! … and yes, the overhead luggage rack on the IETs is very good. Switching between IET and Voyager indicates just how good! … and of course one must remember that sometimes it needs to serve a second purpose of protecting those seated below from the vagaries of the air-con's … condensate discharge ;)
 

cactustwirly

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I'm strongly inclined to agree, though I'm waiting until I have enough experience of the 387s before finally deciding! … and yes, the overhead luggage rack on the IETs is very good. Switching between IET and Voyager indicates just how good! … and of course one must remember that sometimes it needs to serve a second purpose of protecting those seated below from the vagaries of the air-con's … condensate discharge ;)

As someone who regularly uses 387s, I have to disagree.
The 800 feels much more stable at speed and has a better build quality and ambience.
 

samuelmorris

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Yeah knowing what Electrostars are like at 90mph (haven't experienced 100 or 110) the 800 was definitely a lot smoother at speed and at 125 was largely fine. They definitely feel quite 'planted' but they would given how heavy they are. In terms of interior quality though, I'm not sure they're much of an improvement. Perhaps they will be long-term but I'm pretty sure the unit I travelled on was only 2-3 months old and there were still multiple rattles. The main culprit is the window blinds, they're terrible. Having travelled on a 395 again this week I find myself wishing we could have had 26m vehicle vestibuled versions of those. They have all sorts of interior rattles too but even electric vs electric they seem to accelerate substantially faster (presumably due to the higher % of powered vehicles), don't have the wheel wobble at high speed and of course have a considerably nicer interior.
 

59CosG95

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Went past North pole yesterday and there was a lot of 800s there which surprised me as I thought they would be out working. Some 800/3s and 800001 in green, first time I've seen that. Saw 800306 arrive into Paddington on a training run and then leave again. Very impressed with acceleration under electric power but have to confirm the very load bangs from the bogies at speed.
Forgot to add; 800002 was delivered (in green) on the 10th.
 

Roger100

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I was down south last Saturday and noticed the growth in 800 trains in Paddington compared with my visit a month ago. The photo shows an 800/3 namely 800304 passing at speed through Burnham on 1A82 Penzance to Paddington. The train arrived at Paddington on time. This was the first 9-car 800 I've seen in service. The photo could have been better but too much afternoon sunshine.

I gather there are perhaps 8 out of 9 of these now in service. The original GWR order was for 14 9-car 802 train sets, but I gather more 9-car 80x trains are on order. Does anyone know how many 9-car GWR IET sets will be in their fleet?

800304 Burnham.jpg
 

59CosG95

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I was down south last Saturday and noticed the growth in 800 trains in Paddington compared with my visit a month ago. The photo shows an 800/3 namely 800304 passing at speed through Burnham on 1A82 Penzance to Paddington. The train arrived at Paddington on time. This was the first 9-car 800 I've seen in service. The photo could have been better but too much afternoon sunshine.

I gather there are perhaps 8 out of 9 of these now in service. The original GWR order was for 14 9-car 802 train sets, but I gather more 9-car 80x trains are on order. Does anyone know how many 9-car GWR IET sets will be in their fleet?

View attachment 49790
The (DfT) IET order was for 21 9-car Class 801/0s (later changed to Class 800/3s); GWR subsequently ordered 14 9-car Class 802/1s. IIRC, 800s 302-309 are now in passenger service, so 7/35 (aka 20%) of the 9-car fleet are now in service.
 

D1009

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It wouldn't have been 1A82, they are not working in passenger service west of Taunton yet.
 
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Bayum

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Yeah knowing what Electrostars are like at 90mph (haven't experienced 100 or 110) the 800 was definitely a lot smoother at speed and at 125 was largely fine. They definitely feel quite 'planted' but they would given how heavy they are. In terms of interior quality though, I'm not sure they're much of an improvement. Perhaps they will be long-term but I'm pretty sure the unit I travelled on was only 2-3 months old and there were still multiple rattles. The main culprit is the window blinds, they're terrible. Having travelled on a 395 again this week I find myself wishing we could have had 26m vehicle vestibuled versions of those. They have all sorts of interior rattles too but even electric vs electric they seem to accelerate substantially faster (presumably due to the higher % of powered vehicles), don't have the wheel wobble at high speed and of course have a considerably nicer interior.

Would the 395s have slightly higher acceleration due to the linespeed and timetabling of the lines they run on? Contrast that to the mere 125mph the 800s get up to, there’s going to be a decrease somewhere surely?
 

ainsworth74

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Would the 395s have slightly higher acceleration due to the linespeed and timetabling of the lines they run on? Contrast that to the mere 125mph the 800s get up to, there’s going to be a decrease somewhere surely?

My experience of IETs on electric is that when they get to 125 its a) reached incredibly quickly and b) feels like there's plenty in the tank to go beyond 125. I'd describe it as an effortless performance to reach 125 and, personally, I can't wait to see what they can do when given more than London to Didcot on the juice.
 
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The (DfT) IET order was for 21 9-car Class 801/0s (later changed to Class 800/3s); GWR subsequently ordered 14 9-car Class 802/1s. IIRC, 800s 302-309 are now in passenger service, so 7/35 (aka 20%) of the 9-car fleet are now in service.

It’s 800304-800308 in passenger service
 

Mikey C

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I imagine it would be annoying on a long journey, having to effectively sit with your legs at an angle, and not ideal if someone is next to you.

It just seems a shame to give generous kneeroom and then not be able to exploit this.

Incidentally it's not a problem with the 395s, where the window seats are attached to the side wall, so it's not as if all Hitachi trains have floor mounting...

tumblr_pc6v9nCyRn1sl9kx3o1_1280.jpg
 

Roger100

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It wouldn't have been 1A82, they are not working in passenger service west of Taunton yet.

Maybe 1L58 from Cheltenham Spa? My photo time was 15:01 while I was waiting for my train at Burnham, it was just a chance photo.
 

Charlie M.

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Maybe 1L58 from Cheltenham Spa? My photo time was 15:01 while I was waiting for my train at Burnham, it was just a chance photo.

Probably as if you are looking for a 800/3, it would be most likely to find them on a Cheltenham diagram of some sort.

By 3/10/18, all of the Cheltenham services will be operated by IETs. Ten cars cleared at end of August when platform extensions at Stonehouse are complete.
 

Mintona

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My experience of IETs on electric is that when they get to 125 its a) reached incredibly quickly and b) feels like there's plenty in the tank to go beyond 125. I'd describe it as an effortless performance to reach 125 and, personally, I can't wait to see what they can do when given more than London to Didcot on the juice.

Definitely this. I was on 800305 yesterday on the 1230 from Bristol, the acceleration from Reading was incredible. Seemed even faster than the 10 car versions. Reached 125 just beyond Twyford, and felt like it would go and go if the line speed was higher. A rather decent run the whole way to be honest, realtimetrains gives it a timing of 22 1/2 minutes Reading to Paddington:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40015/2018/07/20/advanced
 

Warwick

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On the naughty step again.
My experience of IETs on electric is that when they get to 125 its a) reached incredibly quickly and b) feels like there's plenty in the tank to go beyond 125. I'd describe it as an effortless performance to reach 125 and, personally, I can't wait to see what they can do when given more than London to Didcot on the juice.

I'm still doubtful of a timetable improvement over the 1980 one.
 

Warwick

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Definitely this. I was on 800305 yesterday on the 1230 from Bristol, the acceleration from Reading was incredible. Seemed even faster than the 10 car versions. Reached 125 just beyond Twyford, and felt like it would go and go if the line speed was higher. A rather decent run the whole way to be honest, realtimetrains gives it a timing of 22 1/2 minutes Reading to Paddington:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C40015/2018/07/20/advanced

Which is the same time as a 1980 HST.
 

TwistedMentat

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Yeah knowing what Electrostars are like at 90mph (haven't experienced 100 or 110) the 800 was definitely a lot smoother at speed and at 125 was largely fine. They definitely feel quite 'planted' but they would given how heavy they are. In terms of interior quality though, I'm not sure they're much of an improvement. Perhaps they will be long-term but I'm pretty sure the unit I travelled on was only 2-3 months old and there were still multiple rattles. The main culprit is the window blinds, they're terrible. Having travelled on a 395 again this week I find myself wishing we could have had 26m vehicle vestibuled versions of those. They have all sorts of interior rattles too but even electric vs electric they seem to accelerate substantially faster (presumably due to the higher % of powered vehicles), don't have the wheel wobble at high speed and of course have a considerably nicer interior.

From discussions here it sounds like the Class 800 acceleration rate is capped in software. So it may feel slower but with all the grunt needed to get to 140MPH that max acceleration rate is probably held for much longer. So you get one steady acceleration instead of a peak of quick and then tapering off.
 

jimm

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Which is the same time as a 1980 HST.

But operating on a far busier line, as you have already been told - and a route where automatic train protection is in use, unlike in 1980. Since the introduction of ATP, about the best time an HST could manage between Paddington and Reading was about 25 minutes, which an IET, operating using ATP, can beat.

No one is trying to recreate the 1980 timetable, an era when many HSTs sailed straight through the likes of Reading, Didcot and Swindon and there were far fewer GW expresses generally, making far fewer stops. The country has changed, people's travel habits have changed, the railway has changed...
 

Mintona

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Paddington to Reading can be done in about 23 minutes still with a clear run on an HST, but it’s closer to 21 on an IET. However it’s slower in the opposite direction because you can’t approach the buffer stops at Paddington at anything like the same speed as you can approach Reading platform 9, especially if you have green signals. That’s why I thought 22 1/2 stop to stop was pretty good for 800305 yesterday on the up.

It’s hard work to get a clear run through Airport Junction these days too, something which certainly wasn’t an issue in 1980. And if this forum is to be believed, without ATP 125 was more of a minimum speed than a maximum in the 80s...
 

Thunderer

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I need some help please. Im booked to travel on 14:45 Paddington - Swansea on 9th August between Reading and Cardiff. This service is booked a 9 car 800/3 and my reservation is in coach B. As I'm not familiar with the 9 car IEP, I'm assuming coach A starts at the standard driving trailer, with the coach next to it being coach B - would that be correct? Just so I know where to stand in Reading because if they say First Class at the rear I will stand towards the front of the train and vice versa...
 

Bikeman78

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My understanding is the GWR has to pay for the trains provided. Staffing them is up to GWR. That means if they only have enough staff for one 5 car part of the 10 car set then they still have to pay for the full 10 cars.

It should also mean that if a train is provided for a service but that service is cancelled due to lack of staff, GWR still have to pay up as Agility met their side of the contract.
Can someone explain to me what is the issue with regard to staffing the 800s? Numerous other TOCs run pairs or even triples of non gangwayed units. Some have a driver and a guard, many are DOO, e.g. 12 car 365s out of King's Cross, 321s or 360s out of Liverpool Street. Given that all 800s have a driver and guard on board, why do they sometimes lock the rear set out of use?
 

Charlie M.

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You can’t compare 1980 to 2018 unless we had the exact same traffic, line speeds, trains, stations and passenger loadings. Most lines are at their maximum line traffic, hence 4 track Filton etc.

Passengers don’t tend to moan at GWR saying it is slower than it was nearly 49 years ago, they are great full for the improvement that they get. I am a train enthusiast, but I am not obsessed with numbers, facts etc, I care more about developments, new trains and improvements to the current operations.
 

Charlie M.

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Can someone explain to me what is the issue with regard to staffing the 800s? Numerous other TOCs run pairs or even triples of non gangwayed units. Some have a driver and a guard, many are DOO, e.g. 12 car 365s out of King's Cross, 321s or 360s out of Liverpool Street. Given that all 800s have a driver and guard on board, why do they sometimes lock the rear set out of use?

The rear set locked out if use is as infrequent as trains stopping at Pilning: once a week if that.

Pre-training:
2xGuards
2xCustomer Hosts (4 if FC)

After training:
1xTM
2xCustomer Hosts (safety trains, 4FC)
and additionally
1xTicket Examiner

RMT however, do not like the fact that their isn’t a guard in the front of the train even though Customer Hosts would have been trained to deal with situations, mostly with 2 other additional members of staff to assist with them. Don’t know what the situation is now but RMT seem to think that GWR should hire more guards (lots) or lock out the rear 5 coaches.
 

Charlie M.

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I need some help please. Im booked to travel on 14:45 Paddington - Swansea on 9th August between Reading and Cardiff. This service is booked a 9 car 800/3 and my reservation is in coach B. As I'm not familiar with the 9 car IEP, I'm assuming coach A starts at the standard driving trailer, with the coach next to it being coach B - would that be correct? Just so I know where to stand in Reading because if they say First Class at the rear I will stand towards the front of the train and vice versa...

9 car formation:
A,B,C,F,G,H,J,K,L

K and L are FC, usually rear towards Swansea.
 
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