• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

GWR Class 800

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
25 Jul 2018
Messages
35
Location
Oxford
does anyone know how the snazzy new seat reservations work on the 800s? I regularly get 1P12 and 1W02 and the seat reservations are often not set up. Surely with an electronic system, this can be done way more easily than with the old card system? They should even be able to do it centrally, you would think. So the old excuse of "the train was late in so we didn't have time to do the reservations" should be a thing of the past.

Though I note the seat backs on the 800s still have a little slot for the cards, so clearly they were not terribly confident of it actually working! :rolleyes:
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

800001

Established Member
Joined
24 Oct 2015
Messages
3,576
does anyone know how the snazzy new seat reservations work on the 800s? I regularly get 1P12 and 1W02 and the seat reservations are often not set up. Surely with an electronic system, this can be done way more easily than with the old card system? They should even be able to do it centrally, you would think. So the old excuse of "the train was late in so we didn't have time to do the reservations" should be a thing of the past.

Though I note the seat backs on the 800s still have a little slot for the cards, so clearly they were not terribly confident of it actually working! :rolleyes:

They are having on going issues with electronic reservation displays. Belive the trains are awaiting a software update, which hopefully should fix that and also fix the customer information displays.
 

broadgage

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2012
Messages
1,094
Location
Somerset
Why do you post on here, though? Surely if you have a complaint or are unhappy with the service you have received you should contact GWR directly, who may be able to offer you compensation. I post on here in the hope that I might learn something of what is actually happening rather than what GWR tell me, but you do not seem to accept any of the replies you have received.
Which for the most part has been delivered.
Why, if travelling from London to Taunton, would you opt to travel on a train taking an hour and a quarter longer than one that left half an hour behind it, and that is ignoring the perceived overcrowding? That doesn't sound like an "ordinary customer".

I have contacted GWR directly and received two standard letters that do not actually say much, beyond a very vague general apology.
I agree that the 17-30 from Paddington is an odd choice for travel to Taunton, my first recent trip on this service was for the "novelty value" in order to see what the new trains are like.
Several subsequent trips were to take advantage of the much lower fare* payable on this service, EVERY trip was a half length unit.
I have now learnt my lesson and reverted to the 18-03, despite the much higher fare*
The 18-03 is still a proper 8 car train with padded seats, a buffet, reservations, and even a restaurant. That however is only a short term answer since all long distance GWR services are to be downgraded to DMUs, and presumably the risk of a 5 car on a busy service.

I appreciate that my views place me in a minority, and that many forum members strongly support the new trains.

Outside of the rail industry and these forums, views are less positive.

*The full open fare is of course the same on both services. However heavily discounted advance tickets may be purchased for the slow train. Discounts are very limited on the busy 18-03.
 

404250

Member
Joined
25 May 2018
Messages
367
Which has more seats, 9 car or 2 X 5? Also, which coaches have the engines in each. One must have faster acceleration due to more power per coach?
 

FGW_DID

Established Member
Joined
23 Jun 2011
Messages
2,729
Location
81E
I have contacted GWR directly and received two standard letters that do not actually say much, beyond a very vague general apology.
I agree that the 17-30 from Paddington is an odd choice for travel to Taunton, my first recent trip on this service was for the "novelty value" in order to see what the new trains are like.
Several subsequent trips were to take advantage of the much lower fare* payable on this service, EVERY trip was a half length unit.
I have now learnt my lesson and reverted to the 18-03, despite the much higher fare*
The 18-03 is still a proper 8 car train with padded seats, a buffet, reservations, and even a restaurant. That however is only a short term answer since all long distance GWR services are to be downgraded to DMUs, and presumably the risk of a 5 car on a busy service.

I appreciate that my views place me in a minority, and that many forum members strongly support the new trains.

Outside of the rail industry and these forums, views are less positive.

*The full open fare is of course the same on both services. However heavily discounted advance tickets may be purchased for the slow train. Discounts are very limited on the busy 18-03.

So public opinion is less positive about a 5 car turning up vice 10, not very surprising and understandable.

I’m sure public opinion would be even less positive if no train were to turn up at all!
 

broadgage

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2012
Messages
1,094
Location
Somerset
Which has more seats, 9 car or 2 X 5? Also, which coaches have the engines in each. One must have faster acceleration due to more power per coach?

Cant remember, but the difference in seat numbers between a 9 car and a 5+5 is very small indeed. Just one seat in first class, and a handful in standard class.
The difference in performance between a 9 car and a 5+5 is likewise small, they are regarded as interchangeable for diagramming and timetable planning.
On a 5 car, all 3 intermediate vehicles have engines, but not either of the driving vehicles. 3 engines per 5 car.
On a 9 car, IIRC, all but one of the intermediate vehicles has an engine, and again no engines in the driving vehicles. 6 engines in total.

The 9 car should therefore have better performance, but as said the difference is small and unlikely to be noticeable.

EDIT to add that the 9 car units have 5 engines and not 6 as I incorrectly stated.
The 5 car units should therefore have better performance, though I expect the difference to be small.
 
Last edited:

D1009

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2012
Messages
3,166
Location
Stoke Gifford
I have contacted GWR directly and received two standard letters that do not actually say much, beyond a very vague general apology.
I agree that the 17-30 from Paddington is an odd choice for travel to Taunton, my first recent trip on this service was for the "novelty value" in order to see what the new trains are like.
Several subsequent trips were to take advantage of the much lower fare* payable on this service, EVERY trip was a half length unit.
I have now learnt my lesson and reverted to the 18-03, despite the much higher fare*
The 18-03 is still a proper 8 car train with padded seats, a buffet, reservations, and even a restaurant. That however is only a short term answer since all long distance GWR services are to be downgraded to DMUs, and presumably the risk of a 5 car on a busy service.

I appreciate that my views place me in a minority, and that many forum members strongly support the new trains.

Outside of the rail industry and these forums, views are less positive.

*The full open fare is of course the same on both services. However heavily discounted advance tickets may be purchased for the slow train. Discounts are very limited on the busy 18-03.
I was at Reading last night to travel to Swindon, and just missed the 1730 Padd which was a 10 car IET. The 1742 Padd Cheltenham doesn't stop at Reading, the 1745 Padd Swansea was cancelled, so I ended up on the 1800 Padd "Bristolian", which was also a 10 car IET. This would have had the Swindon passengers who had missed the 1742 at Paddington and a double load of Reading to Swindon passengers. Despite this my coach H which was 2nd from the front was only 20% occupied, I had a table to myself, the table opposite was also unoccupied, and I was highly impressed by the 10 min 29 secs journey time from Reading to Didcot Parkway start to stop for 17 1/4 miles. Given that the 1730 leaves Paddington too early for many people to reach it after working in other parts of London, I remain to be convinced that a 5 car IET cannot handle the load, at least after Reading. There are often unoccupied seats on busy trains between Paddington and Reading, but people cannot reach them because of the number of Reading commuters standing in the vestibules who can't be bothered to sit down.

I don't understand the "downgraded to DMUs" comment, whilst in the diesel powered coaches you can hear the engines clearly during acceleration, once you get up to speed you can't hear them. The first time I experienced a "mode change" at 120 mph after Taplow, I had to listen very carefully to hear the diesels powering up, had I not been paying attention I definitely wouldn't have noticed it. The 1803 will continue to have its restaurant car after the IETs take it over later in the year, and this is something of which GWR is justifiably proud. There is already an IET restaurant car on the South Wales route.

You mention the risk of a 5 car on a busy service, as others have also commented, there is also the risk of busy services being cancelled completely, as happened with the 1745 last night.

I was interested in your comment on Advance Fare availability, surely if there are so many advance fares available that would indicate that the 1730 is not a busy train.

On the subject of positive views about the IETs between forum members, the rail industry and the general public, my experience is the opposite of what you have described. In my local pub in Stoke Gifford, my former railway background is known, and I meet many people who use the railway to get to Temple Meads, London, Swindon, Gloucester, Cheltenham and one who goes to Carmarthen on a weekly basis. Yes they do comment on the seats on the "new trains" being harder, but not in a particularly critical way, and they are more unhappy about how rough riding the "old trains" (HSTs) have become recently. This is quite important if you are trying to use a tablet and inadvertently touch the screen in the wrong place! I have to say most of the complaints I hear in the pub are about the state of the local services in and around the Bristol area. On the rail staff side some of the catering staff are extremely unhappy about having their buffets taken away and being made to pull a heavy trolley through the train continually.

We have to remember that the IET introduction is only one aspect of a revolution throughout GWR the size of which I have never experienced. 8 car 387s replacing Turbos between Paddington and Didcot, Turbos cascaded to Bristol, the effects of Crossrail and the introduction of the European Train Control System to just pick a few. This is being done against a background of modern financial pressures and Health and Safety legislation which were not generally comparable with those under BR.

To sum up the whole of the GWR network is not in a place anyone wants it to be at present, Hitachi/Agility Trains, GWR and their respective staff, the Government, politicians national and local of all persuaions, and of course the passengers. We just have to be patient.
 

Charlie M.

Member
Joined
4 Oct 2015
Messages
170
Location
Gloucester
I appreciate that my views place me in a minority, and that many forum members strongly support the new trains.

No you are not in a minority (elsewhere), this forum just seems to be in support of the trains. I am split 50/50. I like the buffet and the “comfort” of the HST, but the train itself is not exactly perfect. If they built more as 9 coaches, added a buffet and maybe softened the seats, worked the reservations and didn’t mess up the cascade then sure, they would be my faveroute Intercity train.
 

Charlie M.

Member
Joined
4 Oct 2015
Messages
170
Location
Gloucester
^ adding to above, in an ideal world with 4x customer hosts required on the 10 cars you could run a trolley selling drinks and some snacks.

I am also told by a Customer Host that first class is a much more preferable environment to work in now and sometimes if he’s at the very front or very rear, he does not see non reservation customers. He also says that hot food orders are currently being trialed on services.
 

D1009

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2012
Messages
3,166
Location
Stoke Gifford
^ adding to above, in an ideal world with 4x customer hosts required on the 10 cars you could run a trolley selling drinks and some snacks.

I am also told by a Customer Host that first class is a much more preferable environment to work in now and sometimes if he’s at the very front or very rear, he does not see non reservation customers. He also says that hot food orders are currently being trialed on services.
They have in theory been doing that from the start in fact I recall having one of their large tasteless bacon baguettes during the first week of operation, but they've never been brave enough to advertise it, well not in my experience. Obviously they need a second person to do it.
 

cb00

Member
Joined
30 May 2017
Messages
52
Had my first long distance journey on an IET... acceleration under diesel power is indeed superior to an HST and the ride quality is better.

The superior ride quality is offset by the seat backs being far too hard. I tweeted GWR who simply defended the seats. Did anyone involved in the order actually sit in one for more than 5 minutes? What should passengers do if experiencing back pain as a result of the inappropriate seats? Sit in first class where there are reasonably comfortable seats (though still not matching HST first class)?

Another poor aspect - the four air conditioning vents are located near the ends of each carriage, meaning that the 12 or so passengers at each end can expect to spend the journey in discomfort owing to the direct flow of chilly air. Again - poor design and even worse that this was signed off by whoever accepted the trains.

I am disappointed with the quality of these trains given the comparable comfort of the HSTs and will be sorry to see them go.
 

trebor79

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
4,451
The superior ride quality is offset by the seat backs being far too hard. I tweeted GWR who simply defended the seats. Did anyone involved in the order actually sit in one for more than 5 minutes?

The seats and everything else were specified by the DfT, not GWR.
I know someone personally who worked for the DfT at the time. He's now abroad but is surprised at the negativity around the seats because apparently there was extensive consultation and user acceptance trials prior to specifying them.
I told him something must have gone wrong because the seats (and lack of buffet) turn what could have been a decent train into something pretty awful for a lengthy journey.
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
The seats and everything else were specified by the DfT, not GWR.
I know someone personally who worked for the DfT at the time. He's now abroad but is surprised at the negativity around the seats because apparently there was extensive consultation and user acceptance trials prior to specifying them.
I told him something must have gone wrong because the seats (and lack of buffet) turn what could have been a decent train into something pretty awful for a lengthy journey.

GWR say that the condition of the seats and the Buffet matter were following research. This couldn't have involved the people who have to use the facilities. Research questions are often loaded in favour of whatever answer is required by those initiating it.
 

bnm

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2009
Messages
4,996
I agree that the 17-30 from Paddington is an odd choice for travel to Taunton, my first recent trip on this service was for the "novelty value" in order to see what the new trains are like.
Several subsequent trips were to take advantage of the much lower fare* payable on this service, EVERY trip was a half length unit.
I have now learnt my lesson and reverted to the 18-03, despite the much higher fare*
The 18-03 is still a proper 8 car train with padded seats, a buffet, reservations, and even a restaurant. That however is only a short term answer since all long distance GWR services are to be downgraded to DMUs, and presumably the risk of a 5 car on a busy service.

And my experience regarding fares is the direct opposite. The 1730 has rarely offered any Advance Purchase fares to Taunton in recent weeks. When did you travel recently? Can you confirm the fares paid, with redacted booking confirmations or scans of tickets? The 1803 does have plenty of AP availability. Right up to the booking horizon there are no Standard AP's to Taunton on the 1730, but plenty on 1803. Across a variety of days. It's the same in 1st Class. I can't find a single day between now and the booking horizon where Advance Purchase fares are cheaper (or even available) on the 1730 than the 1803.
 

TJDevon

Member
Joined
29 Jan 2018
Messages
142
Location
Exmouth
I am a little confused (doesn't take too much) over which GWR IET diesel engines will be uprated to 940hp or, perhaps more simply, which ones won't. I have read differing details in other sources and would appreciate a definitive answer. Many thanks.
 

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,983
I haven't posted on this thread before because I live in Scotland and, until the last month or so, had never travelled on an IET. I've commented on one or two other threads, but here are my impressions as a newcomer:

- diesel operation is smoother and quieter than any other UK underfloor design but there's still a bit of vibration and hum, which can only get worse with age. I doubt that these noise levels would be of any interest to the general passenger, so I'm happy to move on from this discussion.

- in my view full speed on electric is no smoother and quieter than a mk3 in top condition with its vestibule doors and droplights shut. Not great for 45 years of development.

- I've used both First and Standard. For me First is a washout with seats that offer no more than a bit more space but no other improvement in ambience or comfort on Standard. The Standard seat fits me far better, and there are plenty of tables, so I have no intention of wasting any more money on First on GWR. I'm a very frequent business traveller across the network and generally value the advantages of First, so this really isn't good. Differentiation of the two classes on GWR HSTs is enormous, of course partly because the HST Standard environment was rendered hellish in the last refurb, and on IETs the difference is tiny. I really don't know what they (whether 'they' is the operator or the DfT) were thinking about here.

- when the reservation system works it's fantastic with legible displays and the ultra clear red, amber and green LEDs over each seat. A huge step forward on Voyagers and Pendolinos.

- trolley service seemed identical to anything that I've received in either class on HSTs. Neither better nor worse.

- overall, a huge improvement in Standard on what we've had to put up with, with a corresponding decline in First. Smooth and quiet enough but nothing remarkable. They're fine, sorry not to sound more excited than that!
 

irish_rail

Established Member
Joined
30 Oct 2013
Messages
3,876
Location
Plymouth
Why did daft specify buffets for the East coast ones which are predominantly doing journeys of less than 3 hours (bar the Scottish services) and yet didn't specify a buffet on the 802s which will ply the Paddington to Cornwall route where most journeys are over 3 hours??!! Double standards I guess and being afraid of the negative reaction in the northern and Scottish constituencies, negative reaction down here seems to matter less.....
 

gsnedders

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2015
Messages
1,472
Why did daft specify buffets for the East coast ones which are predominantly doing journeys of less than 3 hours (bar the Scottish services) and yet didn't specify a buffet on the 802s which will ply the Paddington to Cornwall route where most journeys are over 3 hours??!! Double standards I guess and being afraid of the negative reaction in the northern and Scottish constituencies, negative reaction down here seems to matter less.....
Some of this was down to how much GWR and VTEC pushed to get variations from the DfT specification, AFAIK. VTEC obviously got more in way of concessions (buffet, the red interior, etc.).
 

Dai Corner

Established Member
Joined
20 Jul 2015
Messages
6,351
Some of this was down to how much GWR and VTEC pushed to get variations from the DfT specification, AFAIK. VTEC obviously got more in way of concessions (buffet, the red interior, etc.).

I thought the GWR 802s were leased from a ROSCO, nothing to with the DfT?
 

D1009

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2012
Messages
3,166
Location
Stoke Gifford
Some of this was down to how much GWR and VTEC pushed to get variations from the DfT specification, AFAIK. VTEC obviously got more in way of concessions (buffet, the red interior, etc.).
In the case of the class 802 contract for Cornwall and additional Cotswold Line services, that was not part of the DfT IEP contract, it was negotiated with Hitachi/Agility Trains by GWR themselves. Initially GWR stated buffets may be provided on those services, but in the light of cost overruns elsewhere, the financial climate changed, so it was decided the interior layout would be the same as the rest of the IET fleet, which has practical advantages where the 800s and 802s could deputise for one another. That is my take on what happened from reading what has been posted here, and informed comment in railway magazines.
 

Class83

Member
Joined
8 Jun 2012
Messages
494
Why did daft specify buffets for the East coast ones which are predominantly doing journeys of less than 3 hours (bar the Scottish services) and yet didn't specify a buffet on the 802s which will ply the Paddington to Cornwall route where most journeys are over 3 hours??!! Double standards I guess and being afraid of the negative reaction in the northern and Scottish constituencies, negative reaction down here seems to matter less.....

In Short LNER is a Profit Centre, GWR is a Cost Centre. Therefore East Coast gets the nice things.

Exeter is ~2 hours, Plymouth 3, only Penzance is over 4 hours. Edinburgh is minimum 4 hours from London and has business travel and competition from airlines.
 

The Ham

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
10,325
Though I note the seat backs on the 800s still have a little slot for the cards, so clearly they were not terribly confident of it actually working! :rolleyes:

The ticket slots were part of the DfT specification, due to the problems with the Voyagers electronic system not being reliable (a lot of the specification was "do this so that we don't have problems like we have on the Voyagers").

Given this costs involved in this item it is a good plan to have a manual backup in case of problems.
 

D1009

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2012
Messages
3,166
Location
Stoke Gifford
The ticket slots were part of the DfT specification, due to the problems with the Voyagers electronic system not being reliable (a lot of the specification was "do this so that we don't have problems like we have on the Voyagers").

Given this costs involved in this item it is a good plan to have a manual backup in case of problems.
In practice in my experience the slots haven't been used much since the first couple of months though, announcements of reservation non availability has been common.
 

CeeJ

Member
Joined
25 Jun 2017
Messages
157
On board the 09:45 to Cardiff, haven’t left Paddington yet but what a beautiful train. The livery is very well presented, the interiors look nice, bright and modern, and the legroom is good.

It’s just let down by the seats. They’re just about tolerable for a short commuter train. If I were a regular long-distance pax I’d have to bring a pillow.
 

physics34

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
3,700
GWR say that the condition of the seats and the Buffet matter were following research. This couldn't have involved the people who have to use the facilities. Research questions are often loaded in favour of whatever answer is required by those initiating it.
did research include sitting in the seat for 4 hours, i doubt it. I think it is probably arse covering. No big tests were done on the seats.
 

D1009

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2012
Messages
3,166
Location
Stoke Gifford
For those of us who have been following the thread from the start, continued and prolonged discussion of the seats has become very tedious. The subject has been done to death many times over.
 

dp21

Member
Joined
10 May 2017
Messages
358
For those of us who have been following the thread from the start, continued and prolonged discussion of the seats has become very tedious. The subject has been done to death many times over.

This. It's got to the point where I actually hate seats!
 

jyte

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2016
Messages
670
Location
in me shed
did research include sitting in the seat for 4 hours, i doubt it. I think it is probably arse covering. No big tests were done on the seats.
Have to agree here. I was told that when Crosscountry pulled the 'shop' from the voyagers to provide bike space they basically asked two questions - At seat service & bike storage or continue as is, they was no explicit mention that the shop would go. And low and behold, some of those trains are so rammed the trolley never makes it through.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top