Class 802 failure between Exeter and Tiverton Parkway requiring evacuation (13/09)

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Dren Ahmeti, 13 Sep 2018.

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  1. tsr

    tsr Established Member

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    Seems to be a rising problem recently with a number of incidents I've dealt with or heard about, across a number of fleets. Also one or two where the units have become electrically uncoupled and then refused to couple back up, on occasion resulting in one of the multiple units shutting down because it had no input from an active driver's cab for so long. Admittedly I don't deal with the 80x fleet, though.

    It should theoretically have still been possible to draw up another train (entirely unrelated to the failed one) alongside and cross the passengers over. The formal version of such a process was invented in Europe, I believe, and is still known by some in the UK as "transboardment" (loosely derived from the French term for it).

    Nowadays there are side-to-side evacuation "ramps" in certain areas of the country which can be deployed quite quickly via a MOM's van or similar. Not sure if the Wessex area has them. They are used to bridge the gap between trains. Consideration does need to be given to doorway widths - eg. the ramps may be unsuitable for Mk3 end doors, but wider doors should be fine.

    In a worst-case scenario you can also use a wheelchair ramp between some types of trains. Certainly some Bombardier stock, although not sure about Hitachi stuff. It does depend how far the trains are from each other - if the "six-foot" between two running lines is too far apart or the two lines are on too much of a camber/tilt, it can be impossible for any ramp solution to work.

    I believe a Voyager was used to recover passengers from the Watford incident precisely because it was a DMU, and the state of the OHLE did not allow an EMU to operate. Other than the VTWC Voyagers, the south end of the WCML has precious few suitable DMUs for large volumes of passengers.

    Relying on computers without a proper override system (able to be operated with suitable training) is certainly a disaster waiting to happen.

    Some override systems that I see are electronic in and of themselves. Not great, really!
     
  2. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Indeed. I remember being on a Eurostar once on the ECML and the internal computer kept switching it off because of ice on the overhead line which kept cutting off power. We were transferred at Doncaster to a train which ran because a bloke was able to press on a lever, regardless of how much ice was on the line !
     
  3. irish_rail

    irish_rail Member

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    And they say driverless is the way forward ..... :{:lol::lol:
     
  4. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

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    What would have happened if a disabled passenger, either wheelchair bound, unable to walk, or unable to manage steps, had been on board? There literally would have been no way to get them off and they would have been totally stranded.
    The only option then would have been the Voyager coming up alongside, putting a ramp between the two trains and wheeling them over. Otherwise they would've been spending the night on the IET.
     
  5. MotCO

    MotCO Member

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    It would have required a hell of a lot of motor bikes to deliver all that - couldn't they have taken some of the passengers back with them riding pillion :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  6. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

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    GWR unveil new evacuation strategy......

    [​IMG]
     
  7. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    Quite :lol:
     
  8. JN114

    JN114 Established Member

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    Or as happened with a number of passengers yesterday they were physically lifted off the train my emergency services personnel and carried onto the Voyager; as would happen in any emergency evacuation of a train.
     
  9. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    'Transboardment' may not have been an option in this location. We are talking about a GWR (of old) mainline. Distance between tracks may have been too wide. What with the line historically having been broad gauge.

    The area where the train came to a stand may also have been on a curve. This section of line has some high-ish speed curvature with high cant angles.
     
    Last edited: 15 Sep 2018 at 01:06
  10. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    No, it was quite straightforward then, you went along the train "pulling the cords" on the brake reservoirs on each coach. Locked on brakes would release. Took about 5 minutes to work along a train. This notably used to be needed sometimes with steam locomotives as the GWR (the proper one) had more powerful brake ejectors than other railways, when they stopped to change engines the other loco could not get the brakes off again.

    So the Bad Old loco hauled stock stock had specific provision for brakes locked on, and did so for more than a century. Maybe the Hitachi engineers from the Inter-Nippy Wondertrain, where such provision is evidently deemed not necessary, can go along to Didcot museum and get them to show on 100 year old stock how to do it. No need for the Devon Fire Brigade to waste their time having to assist with a perfectly straightforward mechanical fault.
     
  11. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

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    If necessary the fire brigade would be called on to assist or it may be considered safer, and they may prefer to remain on the train and be looked after on there until an easier evacuation could be arranged

    Having one or two people stuc on a train is far less of a problem than a train load.

    Not how it worked on the 2045 departure from Leeds to Kings cross on Wed evening.

    Conked out with an air leak 400 yds short of Kings cross, driver unable to sort, fitter unable to sort, after two and quarter hours towed back to Finsbury park to transfer to another set brought out of depot for the job, and taken to London for taxis all round.

    Were kept well supplied with coffee and biscuits/cakes during delay and the ontrain staff, and taxi organisers were great.

    Sorry no numbers of rescue or original traction.

    Surprised this did not achieve a thread.
     
  12. Surreytraveller

    Surreytraveller Member

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    Just to be a pedant - railways don't do 00:00 - its either 23.59 or 00.01, as otherwise we don't know whether you're referring to midnight on the 13th/14th or 14th/15th
     
  13. BRX

    BRX Established Member

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    We're in the 21st century now...this kind of language is a bit off isn't it?
     
  14. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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  15. jimm

    jimm Established Member

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    Really? So no one at GWR or Hitachi could give two hoots about what happened and they are all studiously ignoring it (sarcasm alert).

    I'm not at all surprised, given the way some posters here and on the GW Passengers' Forum jump on any issue with an IET, big or small.

    Whereas HSTs/Class 91s/anything else on wheels worked perfectly straight out of the box and has done ever since... (sarcasm alert)

    In the same way that nothing ever goes wrong on Chiltern, such as cancellations due to crew shortages (more last weekend) or this morning's complete signalling failure south of Gerrards Cross, which is playing merry hell with services at Marylebone right now.
     
    Last edited: 15 Sep 2018 at 09:43
  16. BRX

    BRX Established Member

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    Yes, the abbreviation used as an ethnic slur is derived from the country name. As is also the case with, for example, Pakistan.
     
  17. Malcolmffc

    Malcolmffc Member

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    Yes, this language is unacceptable
     
  18. tsr

    tsr Established Member

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    Yes, quite, which is why I mentioned that...
    Quite rightly, the railways take more precautions with just releasing stuck-on brakes than perhaps would have often happened in days of yore. You'll be looking at proper assessments of what's needed to keep the train stationary - and then stable/controllable whenever it starts moving. Often these assessments are quite straightforward, but the actions required once you've created effectively unbraked stock could be lengthy.

    Pedantically, this is untrue, although I'd quite agree it shouldn't happen! I recently noticed there seems to actually be a Southeastern crew diagram which has a booked relief at 00.00 at the moment, which sounds like asking for trouble. And I've definitely seen at least one diagram with a bog standard station arrival time listed as 00.00 as well.
     
  19. ChiefPlanner

    ChiefPlanner Established Member

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    "RIC , DIC , Pull and Kick" was the aide memoire

    "Reservoir Isolating Cock , Distributor Isolating Cock , Pull the brake release cord, kick the brake blocks to ensue the brake blocks had come off the wheel set. Old stock only of course ....
     
  20. Tomnick

    Tomnick Established Member

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    The principle still stands on relatively new stock too, though. Make sure it's not going to run away, consider gradients and the brake force that'll remain available, have someone ready to apply the parking brake if you still have main res air and the swinger's on the front or rear (5mph max in that case, but at least it'll clear the line, and bar couplings between MU vehicles overcome that anyway). You can have a catastrophic air leak on a 2nd gen DMU vehicle and still be able to get the train moving by isolating the brakes (on that vehicle only) and pinning the parking brakes back, even if you have to bury the affected vehicle. Have we really departed so far from simple principles that there's really no way of overriding the computer when it says no?
     
  21. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    On trains without openable windows, is there not a special 'fence' that allows a door to be opened for ventilation, while stopping people getting - and presumably falling - off. Never seen one to know how strong they are.
     
  22. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    Why ?

    I'd be pulling in to the station from a 23:xx service and and there would be a Driver waiting for me. Not sure how I could possibly get confused :/
     
  23. ChiefPlanner

    ChiefPlanner Established Member

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    One of my most innovative co-operations on moving a train , was when a 12 car MK1 EMU hit at some speed , some sleepers in the 4ft (left from overnight work) - which sheared off the brake pipes on the front 4 (and stopping us in a heap from 90mph - I honestly thought we had derailed) , brilliant old school driver blocked the line , examined the train and I and the guard moved the passengers off the front 4 to the rear 12 , locked the gangway and we went forward after isolating the front 4 at 5 mph to Woking , with the driver in the front cab of the braked 8 , with self and guard in the front 4 keeping a sharp eye out , ready to apply the mechanical handbrake and giving hand signals. Took about 30 mins. Dumped the 4 in the hands of the Woking staff - (who chocked it) , reversed via the London end and carried on. Impressive bit of work. I was travelling passenger. No chance of doing that today ........
     
  24. Tomnick

    Tomnick Established Member

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    The only thing that'd stop that happening today would be the time taken to consult Control and for them to make the decisions! Nowadays, at least on traction without a computer to interfere (so 2nd gen DMUs again as an example), you could probably isolate the air to the coupler block and carry on as normal, or at the very least isolate everything on the leading vehicle and run it as a swinger, but with no significant restrictions because of the bar coupling to the adjacent vehicle, and you could drive it from the leading vehicle too unless the cab or control circuits had been damaged too. Personally I love working with 15x traction because they're so flexible yet simple and there's usually a relatively quick way out of trouble!
     
  25. Surreytraveller

    Surreytraveller Member

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    You might not be. The relieving driver might be confused. Or even the planners - it is not unknown for planners to get things wrong after it turns midnight - the relieving driver might be booked at the wrong midnight
     
  26. HSTEd

    HSTEd Established Member

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    Unfortunately I have been repeatedly told by people on here that the 15x control system and the operational methods used with it are obsolete and must be replaced with these bespoke solutions, with a different one for every train!
     
  27. ChiefPlanner

    ChiefPlanner Established Member

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    Looking back to 1982 when this happened , the signalman was only too glad to see the 3 track block handed back and the train on the move - so he could then work around the down fast block (until the errant PW team were able to clear the miscreant timber sleepers out of the way) , and would have no doubt informed Waterloo Control as to what had happened , "local" management then dealt with it. I do not recall any huge delays had been built up - the scenario in today's railway might have been "nothing moves" and possible detrainment hours later with all 4 lines blocked.

    Very capable and confident train crew dealt with it. BTW it was the 0745 Waterloo to Bournemouth with a 4REP on the back. The buffet crew handed out tea to us in the cab at Woking.

    Says a lot for the utter robustment and simplicity of the stock at the time. The neccessary isolations and a quick EPB / Westnghouse brake test before we moved at 5 mph was quickly done ........
     
  28. thelongestroad

    thelongestroad Member

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    Actually, the class 800s do have door nets that can be fitted to an open door which allow ventilation but stop people falling out. They're in the emergency equipment cupboards.
     
  29. SamYeager

    SamYeager Member

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    Presumably the guard/TM/whatever they're known as know how to fit them? Would Control need to authorise their use first?
     
  30. alangla

    alangla Member

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    Still not perfect though - there was an incident a year or so ago when a pair of 156s stopped in Princes St Gardens with a brake fault & blocked the entrance to Edinburgh Waverley for the entire morning peak. All the usual tricks were used & it still wouldn't move. Can't remember how it was finally shifted.
     
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