Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[1D54]

Note that the Rail Minister used the word 'should' in other words there will be a variety of reasons this will not happen but of course it was never going to happen in the first place. Mr O'Brian should know better than believe was he was told without going to other sources first who know more about what is actually going on and he certainly shouldn't be going public with it without further checks.

 

[PG]

This is from Neil O`Brien MP for Harborough, on Facebook.

Falls in the same category as those leaflets that come through the door periodically - not worth the paper they're printed on as they can say/claim pretty much anything.

 

[The_Train]

This is from Neil O`Brien MP for Harborough, on Facebook.

I met with the Rail Minister today to chase on progress with the new electric trains. They should be rolling out from Autumn - about one a week, so it will take about six months. After the coming weekend closures to May there shouldn't be any more closures this year. We also talked about timings, and I pressed him on sorting out the wasteland around Market Harborough station.

Typical political rubbish. The word "should" and the fact a timeframe that gives them 6 months grace without being pestered over it has been used are the two big giveaways here

 

[InTheEastMids]

Note that the Rail Minister used the word 'should' in other words there will be a variety of reasons this will not happen but of course it was never going to happen in the first place. Mr O'Brian should know better than believe was he was told without going to other sources first who know more about what is actually going on and he certainly shouldn't be going public with it without further checks.

As an opposition politician this is exactly what he should have done. He may (or may not) have intel about how well/badly the programme is going, but meetings like this lay the groundwork for future campaigning. You can picture the scene in a year's time.

"I sought assurances from the Rail Minister in March 2025 that the trains would be entering service at the rate of 1 a week by the end of the year. It's now March 2026 and this hasn't happened. Did the Rail Minster deliberately mislead me? Will he have me sacked for saying something that upsets him? Is the Labour Government's delivery of rail policy so incompetent that..." And so on.

I pressed him on sorting out the wasteland around Market Harborough station

Harsh on Harborough. It was in the Sunday Times "Best Places to Live" guide just last year

 

[dosxuk]

As an opposition politician this is exactly what he should have done. He may (or may not) have intel about how well/badly the programme is going, but meetings like this lay the groundwork for future campaigning. You can picture the scene in a year's time.

"I sought assurances from the Rail Minister in March 2025 that the trains would be entering service at the rate of 1 a week by the end of the year. It's now March 2026 and this hasn't happened. Did the Rail Minster deliberately mislead me? Will he have me sacked for saying something that upsets him? Is the Labour Government's delivery of rail policy so incompetent that..." And so on.

And they'll simply answer with "that was the information I was given at the time, unfortunately our partners at Hitachi have run into some difficulties and in order to ensure a smooth introduction to service they have delayed the introduction of the new rolling stock - after all nobody wants the new trains to break down because they've been introduced before fixing the issues - I have recently spoken to them and they have reassured me that the new stock will be ready to begin introduction at the next timetable change" - and the can will be kicked down the road for another six months.

At this stage there is little alternative to sit and wait, so there's nothing politicians words can do to speed things up.

 

[InTheEastMids]

At this stage there is little alternative to sit and wait, so there's nothing politicians words can do to speed things up.

We're starting to head off-topic, so I will just briefly try to make the point that everybody on this forum knows there is not really anything a politician is going to do to help 810 introduction (unless by coincidence they are brilliant at aluminium welding or debugging software!).

But we are not the audience for the post, it's local constituents who don't know or care about the detail of railways. So reality doesn't matter, it's the perception/narrative that opposition parties try to create: "Government can't fix the new trains, or the railways, or housing, or immigration, or the NHS, or anything really, so you'd best vote for us".

Anyway, here's hoping that Hitachi can stick to the dates outlined by the minister.

 

[QSK19]

Anything the government and/or MPs say should not believed until we see concrete action (whether that’s spades in the ground for electrification or, in this case, 810s entering passenger service). Anything short of that is hot air; and, as others have said, using the word “should” means there are no firm commitments nor anything to get excited about.

My (initially throwaway) prediction of 810 introduction in 2026 is, sadly, a real possibility.

 

[superkev]

It alright saying there being delivered this year but previous train deliveries sometimes seem to spend literally tears doing whatever they need to do before they carry passengers.
Glad when I get my car delivered I just get inl and drive it.
Even Jet2s last batch of Boeing 737s had seats fitted and were in use within a month of delivery. Rail really must do better.
K

 

[43066]

This is from Neil O`Brien MP for Harborough, on Facebook.

I met with the Rail Minister today to chase on progress with the new electric trains. They should be rolling out from Autumn - about one a week, so it will take about six months. After the coming weekend closures to May there shouldn't be any more closures this year. We also talked about timings, and I pressed him on sorting out the wasteland around Market Harborough station.

Is that the derelict cement works with a load of old vehicles parked up near it? I wonder who the land is actually owned by - I’m sure it was railway owned once but may no longer be.

Harsh on Harborough. It was in the Sunday Times "Best Places to Live" guide just last year

 

[tram21]

After the coming weekend closures to May there shouldn't be any more closures this year.

Well this is already false; on RTT I can see that there is works between Leicester and Kettering on 22nd/23rd June, so no trains to Market Harborough that weekend!

 

[InTheEastMids]

Is that the derelict cement works with a load of old vehicles parked up near it? I wonder who the land is actually owned by - I’m sure it was railway owned once but may no longer be.

Sorry mods, a bit OT but you can see what was once railway using NLS side-by-side. I think the OS 1:1,250 /1:2,500 1944-1974 is the best historic layer to use.
Looking at the Land Registry GIS I have access to, all the open ground to the immediate east of the railway and north of the car park is almost certainly still Network Rail.
The cement depot and the area with old vehicles were last sold in 2024 and 2013 respectively, suggesting they are no longer in Network Rail ownership.

However, I think the "wasteland" being referred to might be the former SPL compound to the immediate South of the main car park.

Trying to bring us back on topic, are any 810s out and about on the network much at the moment?
I had a quick look at this week's RTT and couldn't see anything from Old Dalby that looked like an 810 test.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It alright saying there being delivered this year but previous train deliveries sometimes seem to spend literally tears doing whatever they need to do before they carry passengers.
Glad when I get my car delivered I just get inl and drive it.
Even Jet2s last batch of Boeing 737s had seats fitted and were in use within a month of delivery. Rail really must do better.
K

Easyjet fly the planes out of Hamburg and are in use the following day. BR used to be able to achieve something close decades ago. Something has gone wrong with new rolling stock and no one seems to care from the industry or politicians to do something about it.

 

[Spartacus]

Even Jet2s last batch of Boeing 737s had seats fitted and were in use within a month of delivery. Rail really must do better.
K

Essentially a 30 year old design now though, with origins going back nearly 60 years now. Akin to the 66s when they were delivered, most of which entered service very quickly. And we saw what happened when the following generation of 737 went into service, essentially the same as previous ones, but with some characteristics that were were quite different, and as it turned out important differences, leading to all, almost 400, aircraft being grounded, revealing additional design flaws.

 

[duffield]

[Deleted, wandering too far offtopic]

 

[AndrewJM70]

Is anyone being held to account for this 810 introduction fiasco? I am guessing not. The level of incompetence is breathtaking.

 

[43096]

Is anyone being held to account for this 810 introduction fiasco? I am guessing not. The level of incompetence is breathtaking.

Ah that old favourite “held to account”…

Of course they are, it just doesn’t become public knowledge. Hitachi will be paying through the nose under the penalty clauses in the contract for late delivery.

 

[STINT47]

Is anyone being held to account for this 810 introduction fiasco? I am guessing not. The level of incompetence is breathtaking.

The ROSCO will get compensation from Hitachi but nothing will come through to passengers and tax payers.

No politicians seem intrested inhauling Hitachi in front of the fire for the grilling. No one seems to be intrested.

I think it will be well into 2026 before they are introduced and then they'll be unreliable. I hope I'm proven wrong on this.

 

[43066]

Sorry mods, a bit OT but you can see what was once railway using NLS side-by-side. I think the OS 1:1,250 /1:2,500 1944-1974 is the best historic layer to use.
Looking at the Land Registry GIS I have access to, all the open ground to the immediate east of the railway and north of the car park is almost certainly still Network Rail.
The cement depot and the area with old vehicles were last sold in 2024 and 2013 respectively, suggesting they are no longer in Network Rail ownership.

However, I think the "wasteland" being referred to might be the former SPL compound to the immediate South of the main car park.

Very interesting indeed, thanks.

 

[The_Train]

Is anyone being held to account for this 810 introduction fiasco? I am guessing not. The level of incompetence is breathtaking.

Nobody gets held accountable for anything these days. They just bury their heads in the sand, blaming things that happened years and years ago and then go away and pick up their 6 figure annual salary for being incompetent oafs (in my opinion, of course )

 

[denton]

Did emt consider the sadler 745 flirt trains, rather then the troublesome hitachi 810

 

[Trainbike46]

Did emt consider the sadler 745 flirt trains, rather then the troublesome hitachi 810

Stadler did bid for the EMR order, but not with 745s. The stadler bid (obviously) was not selected.

 

[D365]

The Bombardier offering was the runner up.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Did emt consider the sadler 745 flirt trains, rather then the troublesome hitachi 810

The 745s had there problems initially and have only just departed Roger Fords reliability tracker.

 

[jfowkes]

Did emt consider the sadler 745 flirt trains, rather then the troublesome hitachi 810

How much say do EMR have in the matter, compared to the DfT?

My impression is that the DfT call the shots with this sort of thing and that TOCs, ROSCOs and manufacturers do as they're told. But I could be mistaken.

 

[AndrewJM70]

The delay with these trains is beyond ridiculous. It is not as if Hitachi have never manufactured one before so I don’t understand what they are messing around at. Even with Covid we were told to expect them in 2023. We are now well into 2025 and there isn’t even a line of sight. Every year we are told next year and then when next year arrives we are told another year. Everyone involved needs firing in my opinion.

 

[800001]

The delay with these trains is beyond ridiculous. It is not as if Hitachi have never manufactured one before so I don’t understand what they are messing around at. Even with Covid we were told to expect them in 2023. We are now well into 2025 and there isn’t even a line of sight. Every year we are told next year and then when next year arrives we are told another year. Everyone involved needs firing in my opinion.

From sources I can’t quote, the issues with the build quality of these units is horrendous! Welding is very very poor and is causing big delays in production.

 

[AM9]

The delay with these trains is beyond ridiculous. It is not as if Hitachi have never manufactured one before so I don’t understand what they are messing around at. Even with Covid we were told to expect them in 2023. We are now well into 2025 and there isn’t even a line of sight. Every year we are told next year and then when next year arrives we are told another year. Everyone involved needs firing in my opinion.

Firing people won't make deliveries any quicker, - indeed it will require at least some of a new workforce to be recruited and trained.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

From sources I can’t quote, the issues with the build quality of these units is horrendous! Welding is very very poor and is causing big delays in production.

Were these the first bodyshells assembled at Newton Aycliffe?

 

[Meerkat]

From sources I can’t quote, the issues with the build quality of these units is horrendous! Welding is very very poor and is causing big delays in production.

Does the factory want to be closed down?!

 

[Aspen90]

I know when EMR point out faults with the units when inspecting them they’ve been told pretty much to deal with it because nothing is being changed! For example the second man seat doesn’t move or adjust and you’re staring straight at the window pillar. That’ll be fun for instructors - apparently the fix is to turn sideways… You couldn’t make it up.