Class 92 nameplates

[Phil6219]

Hi

I have a few questions regarding nameplates on the Class 92, how come the vast majority have "nameplates" which are just names stuck on with transfers whilst others have a physical red nameplate with silver writing?

I came across this puzzle whilst trying to work out what red plated 92 I saw in Mossend yard (14/09/11 - around 19.00) as my camera did not pick out anything usable other than it had a red name plate, this got me thinking as there are only a few that have plates and have tried to work it out from that.

The following 92s have "proper name plates"

92009 - Elgar / Marco Polo
92022 - Charles Dickens
92023 - Ravel
92030 - Ashford
92031 - Royal Institute of Mechanical Engineers

With regards to working out my little "guess the engine" I removed 92009 as I saw it the next day in DBS red and not two tone grey with beastie sticker, 92031 passed me earlier in the day in EWS red and 92023 happens to be an EPS machine which leaves me with two choices. Any ideas? I can't find an old Trust/Tops list online any more

However aside from that little diversion does anyone have an idea as to why some had a physical nameplate and the vast majority of the fleet had the stickers?

Incidentally 92031 has been repainted in DBS red and lost it's name altogether and does anyone have an idea as to why 92009 was renamed from Elgar to Marco Polo - especially since there is a Voyager with the same name (not that I class voyagers as anything near a loco )

Any help is much appreciated

Cheers,

Phil

 

[Schnellzug]

i suspect (this may be a Cynic writing) that the reason stuck-on letters were used originally was because it was Cheap. Yes, with locos costing several millions each, but that's the way that the minds of Bureaucracy works.
I also suspect that the reason Elgar was renamed after a packet of mints was because Elgar was too British and stiff upper lip, don't you know, old chap, and DBS wanted it to sound more European. Though this may also be a Cynic writing.

 

[Boothby97]

92009 actually carries the name Marco Polo because the project to do with more freight moving by rail is known as the Marco Polo Project.
Thanks, Sam

 

[sprinterguy]

i suspect (this may be a Cynic writing) that the reason stuck-on letters were used originally was because it was Cheap. Yes, with locos costing several millions each, but that's the way that the minds of Bureaucracy works.

I have heard it said that one of the reasons that the 92s were not originally fitted with cast nameplates was because the designers were concerned that the fastening bolts would interfere with internal equipment, although that might be just piffle, as there doesn't seem to be an issue with the "polo mints" if they are not just stuck on, or with those locos that have since been fitted with cast plates.

Surely the length of the nameplate will give some aid to the identity of the loco concerned in this instance? "Ashford" will make for a considerably shorter 'plate than "Charles Dickens".

It seems that cast nameplates were fitted principally to those locos that received Railfreight Distribution International livery (Complete with decals), but as to how those locos were selected to receive cast nameplates I have no idea.

 

[Keith Jarrett]

I think that you may have been looking at 92022 rather than 92030 as a post on wnxx.com dated 31 December 2011 (http://www.wnxx.com/news/archive/2011/news1112.htm) says "92030, moved up to Warrington a few days ago from Crewe, had been out of traffic since November 2009".

 

[dubscottie]

I have heard it said that one of the reasons that the 92s were not originally fitted with cast nameplates was because the designers were concerned that the fastening bolts would interfere with internal equipment, although that might be just piffle, as there doesn't seem to be an issue with the "polo mints" if they are not just stuck on, or with those locos that have since been fitted with cast plates.

Surely the length of the nameplate will give some aid to the identity of the loco concerned in this instance? "Ashford" will make for a considerably shorter 'plate than "Charles Dickens".

It seems that cast nameplates were fitted principally to those locos that received Railfreight Distribution International livery (Complete with decals), but as to how those locos were selected to receive cast nameplates I have no idea.

I heard the polo mints were welded on and body panels would need replacing just to remove them! Thats why they have not been (or rather could not be) removed when they were repainted into DBS/GBRF livery.

There were a few 47/7's that kept their scottish names after they were transferred south of the border for the same reason... Someone at Haymarket or Eastfield had been busy with a welder!

 

[Phil6219]

I think that you may have been looking at 92022 rather than 92030 as a post on wnxx.com dated 31 December 2011

Excellent, that's the one I really wanted to see for ages. Having reviewed my video a few dozen times again the name plate is definitely longer and has two words on it, though it is not possible to read the words.

I heard the polo mints were welded on and body panels would need replacing just to remove them! Thats why they have not been (or rather could not be) removed when they were repainted into DBS/GBRF livery.

I have heard this too, and given that they have not moved in DBS, GBRF or Stobart liveries a look at 92001 seems to suggest that they have been moved.

In this link the top of the large "mint with a hole" is almost level with the base of the windows

Whereas this one in BR livery the base of the inside of the largest polo mint is just lower than the windows.

Is it a bit of a puzzle or is it more of an illusion?

It seems that cast nameplates were fitted principally to those locos that received Railfreight Distribution International livery (Complete with decals), but as to how those locos were selected to receive cast nameplates I have no idea.

Yes it does appear to be the case, perhaps RFD's locos were originally in a separate "dedicated pool" hence Railfreight decals and proper nameplates?

92009 actually carries the name Marco Polo because the project to do with more freight moving by rail is known as the Marco Polo Project.

Cheers Sam, I never knew that and then yesterday happened to hear the project being mentioned...

i suspect (this may be a Cynic writing) that the reason stuck-on letters were used originally was because it was Cheap. Yes, with locos costing several millions each, but that's the way that the minds of Bureaucracy works.
I also suspect that the reason Elgar was renamed after a packet of mints was because Elgar was too British and stiff upper lip, don't you know, old chap, and DBS wanted it to sound more European. Though this may also be a Cynic writing.

Haha that sounds so true on both counts, that said I do think that both the transfer and nameplates both look excellent (well except "Bart the Engine"), proper nameplates do look that little bit better though.

I have noticed that DBS have not bothered putting the names back on the 92s after the repaints, with the exception of the proper cast plates. While I can understand in a way having a white letter transfer name would be nice and compliment their livery. I'd have presumed this was the reason that DBS have been leaving nameplates off the 60's after overhaul - despite them all being cast ones. Although with regards to the 60s I presume it's because the nameplates "went walkies" when they were sat rotting around and yes I know 60059 has retained it's name "Swindon Dalesman" and 60007 has a new name.

That said, at least they are finally returning these fine loco's back into service

Phil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
* and thanks for the replies folks

 

[Electrostar]

I vaguely remember reading there was a reason why the polo mints couldn't be removed but I can't remember what. Certainly the theories put forward here sound valid.

Did proper nameplates first appear a few years after the 92 introduction? If so perhaps it was a warranty issue.

In one of those pics the loco appears to carry the cast BR double arrows. I assume these were removed after privatisation?

 

[Phil6219]

Did proper nameplates first appear a few years after the 92 introduction? If so perhaps it was a warranty issue.

In one of those pics the loco appears to carry the cast BR double arrows. I assume these were removed after privatisation?

I'm not sure about the warranty issue and when the cast plates were first introduced, it does sound logical though.

The BR double arrows are still on those that still carry the two tone livery, in this shameless youtube plug we get a nice slow close up of 92003 last year where we get a good look at the polo mints and the name stickers. It still carries its Crewe IED cast plate too.

Phil

 

[Electrostar]

I'll take a look. Something in my memory says the 92s were orriginally named after famous Europeans rather quickly and without ceremony which might account for the decision to opt for "stickers". But again my memory could be playing tricks.