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Clayton CBD90 - Battery+diesel shunter

Nottingham59

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birchesgreen

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Referencing the link in the Class 93 thread


To be known as Class 18, the manufacturer's batch of 15 90T hybrid battery/diesel-electric locomotives, the first of which is expected to run on rails as of this August via leasing company, Beacon Rail, will herald a new era for the manufacturer, and continue the story of its standard gauge Clayton Type 1 (Class 17) Bo-Bo diesel-electrics manufactured by the company between 1961 and 1965.

Not sure they'll be that keen to continue that particular story to be honest!
 

DustyBin

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Referencing the link in the Class 93 thread




Not sure they'll be that keen to continue that particular story to be honest!

You beat me to it there, I was just going to say the same thing!
 

coppercapped

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Referencing the link in the Class 93 thread




Not sure they'll be that keen to continue that particular story to be honest!

You beat me to it there, I was just going to say the same thing!
Clayton's reputation seems to have suffered more than it should have done. A more measured approach shows that there were errors made by both Paxman and BR in the early design and in the insistence of BR on the use of the aluminium crankcases. Some background from the Paxman history website https://www.paxmanhistory.org.uk/paxeng34.htm
The engines initially supplied to British Railways were of aluminium alloy construction. Cracking of the castings became a major problem and the engines were rebuilt by Paxman with cast-iron crankcases at great cost to the Company. John Cove, who worked for Paxman at the time, has told me that British Railways had previously tested the first pair of engines with aluminium crankcases before placing an order for a quantity. By that time Paxman had had some experiences with aluminium castings on the YHA and possibly also the YGA aircooled engine. Both types had experienced troubles with threads and failures in cast aluminium. John went on to say: "Consequently we suggested to BR that we supply the engines with cast iron crankcases from the start but BR were quite adamant that they wanted the engines to be exactly the same as the ones they had tested and which had given no trouble. We were so keen to get the order that we failed to stand up for what we believed was necessary and so supplied them in aluminium. But before long these engines in service had run longer hours than the test engines and troubles began to become apparent and we had to change all the crankcases to iron. The troubles then ceased but this would have been unnecessary if we had taken a stronger line before the order was placed."
 

DustyBin

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Clayton's reputation seems to have suffered more than it should have done. A more measured approach shows that there were errors made by both Paxman and BR in the early design and in the insistence of BR on the use of the aluminium crankcases. Some background from the Paxman history website https://www.paxmanhistory.org.uk/paxeng34.htm

I've heard similar things before actually from people who were invloved wth the Class 17. Their opinion was that the locomotive should have been a success but was compromised by manufacturing decisions as opposed to inherently poor design. That's pretty much what the linked article says....

I wonder if they thought about putting the cab in the middle on the Class 18?!
 

JohnMcL7

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What are the three carriages the shunter moves past in the video?

Are there any other countries currently using battery powered shunters? The idea makes a lot of sense since there's a lot of advantages for them and fewer of the disadvantages.
 

pdeaves

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What are the three carriages the shunter moves past in the video?
The first one is a southern electric thing. Judging by the doors I would say a motor luggage van, possibly one of the battery powered 'tractor' things. The second and third are mark 2s (exact sub-types unknown to me).

Which heritage line is it?
 

Peddles88

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The first one is a southern electric thing. Judging by the doors I would say a motor luggage van, possibly one of the battery powered 'tractor' things. The second and third are mark 2s (exact sub-types unknown to me).

Which heritage line is it?
It looks like Wirksworth station on the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway.
 
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Nottingham59

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Which heritage line is it?
I know they have used the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway in the past, but I couldn't say if that is the case here.

(EDIT: There is Ravenstor station sign on the platform at ground level visible at 0:08.)
 
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Bob Price

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I saw one of these on a lorry in a lay by at j33 of the M4 some time back. Wondered what it was. Maybe a few Class 18's could replace some 08's. Certainly they would fit into the steel works in Cardiff.
 

DustyBin

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The first one is a southern electric thing. Judging by the doors I would say a motor luggage van, possibly one of the battery powered 'tractor' things. The second and third are mark 2s (exact sub-types unknown to me).

Which heritage line is it?

I think you mean a Class 419 (MLV) which it definitely isn’t.

I’d say it’s most likely a former Gatwick Express Class 489 (GLV).
 

Peter Sarf

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Referencing the link in the Class 93 thread




Not sure they'll be that keen to continue that particular story to be honest!
Yes, they did not last long in service. I think a lasting problem was something to do with fires caused by a hot exhaust near fuel lines. Maybe an old urban myth but was once told Carlisle depot had mastered their foibles with regular checking and changing of offending parts.

Shame as always seemed a good idea for remote shunting locations. But the demise of wagonload freight made the 17s and other type 1s surplus anyway. Witness 20s going round in pairs almost all the time by the mid-late 70s thus being a type 4 !.
The first one is a southern electric thing. Judging by the doors I would say a motor luggage van, possibly one of the battery powered 'tractor' things. The second and third are mark 2s (exact sub-types unknown to me).

Which heritage line is it?
My guess is part of one end of a Gatwick Express set. EDIT - confirmed by @birchesgreen. Driving (motor) was made from one end of a 2-HAP iirc.
 

Roger B

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I've read elsewhere that 15 of these have been ordered and that 18001 was delivered to Whitemoor Yard a couple of months ago or so.

Any news on .....
What/how 18001's doing - type testing progress, whether meeting expectations re performance and availability, etc?
When the rest of the fleet are likely to be delivered, and where they're going?
 
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Ashley Hill

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The loco carries its number as part of its full number,I take it that it is officially numbered 18001 and can be referred to as such?
A4DF8438-D144-4273-A93F-D439A3294FFF.jpeg
 

Irascible

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So used to everything having AC traction motors now that it's a wierd disconnect when something new has DC...
 

Roger B

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The loco carries its number as part of its full number,I take it that it is officially numbered 18001 and can be referred to as such?
View attachment 117110
Good question!

I started to think the only way I might see 18001 is with a drone, given the access to Whitemoor Yard, but then I remembered the nearby high-security prison - and flying a drone anywhere nearby could be problematical!

But, I'm wondering whether 18001 (and class 18 generally) is part of the national railway or not - perhaps their status is similar to that of 19001?

I'd thought 19001's presence in the P5 locomotive / rolling stock books meant that it was part of the national railway - ie NR registered. However, when I went to Bo'ness last month to see 19001 (among other things), I was told that 19001 is not NR registered, and the people I was speaking with didn't think it had been since it was purchased by Artemis, or Lenz. Seemed to think that P5 had jumped the gun by including it within their locomotive / rolling stock books.

It's got me thinking ... are class 18 locos in the same boat - ie not NR registered? Are they perhaps, more properly a 'next generation' industrial shunter, and not really part of the national railway? If that's the case, and it's a big if, then it kinda lets me off the hook - yes, I'll note them if/when I see them, but I don't feel compelled to go and track them down, possibly risking a criminal record!

Thoughts anyone?
 

cj_1985

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Good question!

I started to think the only way I might see 18001 is with a drone, given the access to Whitemoor Yard, but then I remembered the nearby high-security prison - and flying a drone anywhere nearby could be problematical!

But, I'm wondering whether 18001 (and class 18 generally) is part of the national railway or not - perhaps their status is similar to that of 19001?

I'd thought 19001's presence in the P5 locomotive / rolling stock books meant that it was part of the national railway - ie NR registered. However, when I went to Bo'ness last month to see 19001 (among other things), I was told that 19001 is not NR registered, and the people I was speaking with didn't think it had been since it was purchased by Artemis, or Lenz. Seemed to think that P5 had jumped the gun by including it within their locomotive / rolling stock books.

It's got me thinking ... are class 18 locos in the same boat - ie not NR registered? Are they perhaps, more properly a 'next generation' industrial shunter, and not really part of the national railway? If that's the case, and it's a big if, then it kinda lets me off the hook - yes, I'll note them if/when I see them, but I don't feel compelled to go and track them down, possibly risking a criminal record!

Thoughts anyone?
With the class 18s, the currently delivered examples... 18001 and 002 iirc, do not have NR compliant light clusters, that are supposed to have compliant light clusters retrofitted after some of the compliant (from delivery) 18s are delivered
 

XAM2175

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The loco carries its number as part of its full number,I take it that it is officially numbered 18001 and can be referred to as such?
View attachment 117110
...
But, I'm wondering whether 18001 (and class 18 generally) is part of the national railway or not - perhaps their status is similar to that of 19001?
...
It's got me thinking ... are class 18 locos in the same boat - ie not NR registered? Are they perhaps, more properly a 'next generation' industrial shunter, and not really part of the national railway? If that's the case, and it's a big if, then it kinda lets me off the hook - yes, I'll note them if/when I see them, but I don't feel compelled to go and track them down, possibly risking a criminal record!
The fact that it's showing a European Vehicle Number with a country code of 70 means that it's included on the National Vehicle Register for Great Britain (unless Beacon have just made up the number, that is).

Whether or not you want to regard this is sufficient evidence of "legitimacy" for spotting, or wait until you see them running on NR metals, is up to you!
 

60159

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The fact that it's showing a European Vehicle Number with a country code of 70 means that it's included on the National Vehicle Register for Great Britain (unless Beacon have just made up the number, that is).

Whether or not you want to regard this is sufficient evidence of "legitimacy" for spotting, or wait until you see them running on NR metals, is up to you!
There is a picture of 2 class 18s at Wolverton in the latest Todays Railways. It stated a third one has arrived.
 

Peter Sarf

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I seem to recall their top speed is greater than for an 08 or 09. Therefore I assume they will at least move from duty to duty (yard to works to yard) by rail unlike the 08 & 09s that shuffle around by road. But other than that I am not sure they will earn money going out on the big railway. So I think seeing them will be like chasing 08s & 09s - you will know almost exactly where they are but I hope they will be busy shunting so easy to see in a yard throat not stuck in the middle of wagons doing nothing.
 

alf

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The specification on post 1 says top speed 20km/hour so even less likely to be on the main line than 20mph 08s & 25mph 09s.
 

Roger B

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The fact that it's showing a European Vehicle Number with a country code of 70 means that it's included on the National Vehicle Register for Great Britain (unless Beacon have just made up the number, that is).

Whether or not you want to regard this is sufficient evidence of "legitimacy" for spotting, or wait until you see them running on NR metals, is up to you!
Yeah - that's a fair cop! I was just hoping otherwise - I reckon some of these could prove pretty challenging to track down!
is 18002 delivered, and if so where's it lurking?
And if anyone has a cunning plan they'd like share re how to legally see 18001, I'd love to hear it! Thx
 

Peter Sarf

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The specification on post 1 says top speed 20km/hour so even less likely to be on the main line than 20mph 08s & 25mph 09s.
Gosh, so it does. That is pathetic, what is the point of such a low top speed ?. I thought that was a significant problem with the 08s and 09s.
Life would be so boring without a few good challenges though :E
Your right but um.......
 

randyrippley

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Gosh, so it does. That is pathetic, what is the point of such a low top speed ?. I thought that was a significant problem with the 08s and 09s.

Your right but um.......
Presumably the low speed means you can downskill the drivers - or replace them with radio control.
Also the crashes will be less damaging
 

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