Cleethorpes - Barton on Humber questions

Skymonster

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Having “enjoyed“ a trip on a short section of the Cleethorpes - Barton on Humber service today, a few questions came to mind:

  1. The driver(s) and guard all wore TPE uniforms, while the stock is EMR and it’s recorded as an EMR operation in timetable data. Why are the staff TPE - will EMR staff take over at some point?

  2. I believe EMR’s derogation for 153s is up at the end of September this year. Presume the pairs of 153s will be replaced with a 156?

  3. It appears there is a curious operating arrangement where the guard travels in the locked-off rear unit, while passengers are all accommodated in the front unit. The guard does come through the front unit to check tickets after each call but then retires to their personal fiefdom until the next stop. I’m guessing the “excuse” is covid, but isn’t that getting a bit old now?
Any observations or insights would be greatly appreciated.
 
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RHolmes

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Having “enjoyed“ a trip on a short section of the Cleethorpes - Barton on Humber service today, a few questions came to mind:

  1. The driver(s) and guard all wore TPE uniforms, while the stock is EMR and it’s recorded as an EMR operation in timetable data. Why are the staff TPE - will EMR staff take over at some point?

  2. I believe EMR’s derogation for 153s is up at the end of September this year. Presume the pairs of 153s will be replaced with a 156?

  3. It appears there is a curious operating arrangement where the guard travels in the locked-off rear unit, while passengers are all accommodated in the front unit. The guard does come through the front unit to check tickets after each call but then retires to their personal fiefdom until the next stop. I’m guessing the “excuse” is covid, but isn’t that getting a bit old now?
Any observations or insights would be greatly appreciated.

1 - EMR have been unable to train their own staff on the route so an extended agreement is in place to use TPE until EMR staff are route trained for the service

3 - It’s not an excuse. Not all staff are fully vaccinated yet (I’ve only just passed the 14 days of my second). It’s to prevent crowding at the local door.
 

Skymonster

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1 - EMR have been unable to train their own staff on the route so an extended agreement is in place to use TPE until EMR staff are route trained for the service

3 - It’s not an excuse. Not all staff are fully vaccinated yet (I’ve only just passed the 14 days of my second). It’s to prevent crowding at the local door.
Thank you for the explanations… (1) begs an extra question: it was previously a Northern operation so why is TPE now involved rather than sticking with Northern staff - presumably TPE staff had to be trained too?
 

RHolmes

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Thank you for the explanations… (1) begs an extra question: it was previously a Northern operation so why is TPE now involved rather than sticking with Northern staff - presumably TPE staff had to be trained too?

It was a Northern service with TPE crew and EMR trains
 

Watershed

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The driver(s) and guard all wore TPE uniforms, while the stock is EMR and it’s recorded as an EMR operation in timetable data. Why are the staff TPE - will EMR staff take over at some point?
It has long been crewed out of Cleethorpes.

When Northern Spirit was split into Northern and TPE in 2004, Cleethorpes became a TPE depot and it has therefore been a TPE crewed service ever since.

Unlike Hull, the two hourly Barton service doesn't provide enough work to justify having a separate depot.

EMR will begin crewing the services out of Lincoln depot when they have enough traincrew, and once route learning is sufficiently advanced. There were suggestions of freight drivers crewing it in the interim, but I'm not convinced this will actually happen.

Of course this change will result in some considerable inefficiencies at both depots. Unfortunately that's the nature of a fragmented railway being micromanaged by the DfT.

I believe EMR’s derogation for 153s is up at the end of September this year. Presume the pairs of 153s will be replaced with a 156?
It will simply be bustituted until EMR have crew in place, if the derogation isn't extended.

It appears there is a curious operating arrangement where the guard travels in the locked-off rear unit, while passengers are all accommodated in the front unit. The guard does come through the front unit to check tickets after each call but then retires to their personal fiefdom until the next stop. I’m guessing the “excuse” is covid, but isn’t that getting a bit old now?
It's the agreed method of operation and no-one is in any hurry to change it. As you say, it's utterly pointless when the guard still comes through checking tickets, but then again many such Covid measures are lacking in common sense.
 

Dr Hoo

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I've only used the service once recently (not end-to-end) and the guard didn't come through at all when I was on it. Passengers were directed away from the locked-out 153 as they approached the train.
 

SteveyBee131

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I can reliably confirm that EMR 153s are still operating the Barton line so it would be reasonable to assume their derogation/dispensation/call-it-what-you-will has been extended.
 

ACBest

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Are there still occasions when TPE units work the service anymore, or are they all consigned to the history books now?
 

_toommm_

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Are there still occasions when TPE units work the service anymore, or are they all consigned to the history books now?

They don’t, which I believe is due to them needing to use local door on the 185s, which they’re reluctant to do.
 

VauxhallNova

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Of course this change will result in some considerable inefficiencies at both depots. Unfortunately that's the nature of a fragmented railway being micromanaged by the DfT.

I agree that this is due to a fragmented railway. But how is DfT micro-managing the issue?
 

Watershed

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I agree that this is due to a fragmented railway. But how is DfT micro-managing the issue?
Why does the service need to transfer operators at all? Yes, it didn't connect with any other part of the Northern network (apart from the summer Saturdays Sheffield-Cleethorpes via Brigg service). But that is hardly a reason to waste so much taxpayer money in coming up with a less efficient solution.
 

VauxhallNova

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Why does the service need to transfer operators at all? Yes, it didn't connect with any other part of the Northern network (apart from the summer Saturdays Sheffield-Cleethorpes via Brigg service). But that is hardly a reason to waste so much taxpayer money in coming up with a less efficient solution.
OK, I understand. In my view the split of the network into so many different companies (and arbitrary split in some instances) is exactly that, a waste of taxpayer money for a less efficient solution. Others disagree, particularly the smaller train operators.
 

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