Coach lettering

[GrahamD83]

Something that has always intrigued me about coach letters.

LNER omit coach letters A, G and J on mk4 sets and omit A and H on HST sets

GC 180's are lettered B through F

4 coach voyagers are lettered A, C, D, F and 5 coach A, B, C, D, F

Is there any particular reason why TOC's don't just start at A and continue as normal?

 

[ComUtoR]

I would Number/Letter them with some form of naming convention :

Coach(s)

T - Toilet
F - First Class
W - Wheelchair accessible
B - Bike Storage
S - Standard
L - Luggage
B - Buffet

With a number where multiples exist

S1, S2 etc

 

[hexagon789]

Something that has always intrigued me about coach letters.

LNER omit coach letters A, G and J on mk4 sets and omit A and H on HST sets

GC 180's are lettered B through F

4 coach voyagers are lettered A, C, D, F and 5 coach A, B, C, D, F

Is there any particular reason why TOC's don't just start at A and continue as normal?

A on LNER is effectively the loco or standard-Class end power car. I guess they letter the catering vehicles differently because they are different and so as not to confuse the reservation system.

 

[hexagon789]

BR used the following for HSTs:

A - Standard Class (TGS)
BCDE - Standard Class (TS)
F - Buffet Car (TRFB/TRSB)
GH - First Class (TF)

Cross-Country sets omitted H.

On Pullman sets the TRFK was lettered K as it was usually positioned between the last TF and power car.

 

[Oxfordblues]

The seemingly random omission of certain coach letters reminds of the seven faculty rules at the University of Woolamaloo as outlined by Professor Bruce Beer (John Cleese) who listed the first five, then "Rule 6: There is no rule six." How we all laughed!

 

[43096]

A on LNER is effectively the loco or standard-Class end power car. I guess they letter the catering vehicles differently because they are different and so as not to confuse the reservation system.

LNER's system for HSTs and Mark 4s is actually very sensible as it allows for substitution by one type for the other with minimal disruption to reservations.

Coach A is not the power car or loco, it is the van area of the TGS and is given a separate coach letter to allow reservations for bikes.
A - bike spaces (HST only in TGS)
B - standard class (unreserved in Mark 4 area where seats not present in HST TGS)
C - standard class
D - standard class
E - standard class
F - standard class disabled
G - standard class (HST only)
H - buffet/standard class (Mark 4 only)
J - buffet/first class (HST only)
K - first class (Mark 4 only)
L - first class
M - first class
P - bike spaces (Mark 4 only in DVT)

 

[hexagon789]

LNER's system for HSTs and Mark 4s is actually very sensible as it allows for substitution by one type for the other with minimal disruption to reservations.

Coach A is not the power car or loco, it is the van area of the TGS and is given a separate coach letter to allow reservations for bikes.
A - bike spaces (HST only in TGS)
B - standard class (unreserved in Mark 4 area where seats not present in HST TGS)
C - standard class
D - standard class
E - standard class
F - standard class disabled
G - standard class (HST only)
H - buffet/standard class (Mark 4 only)
J - buffet/first class (HST only)
K - first class (Mark 4 only)
L - first class
M - first class
P - bike spaces (Mark 4 only in DVT)

Ah, okay. I had "A" wrong, the rest of it is as I understood it though.

 

[Master29]

LNER did give an explanation of why there is a difference between 9 and 10 car Azumas. It concerns the reservation system so as not to confuse the seating between standard and first.

 

[6Gman]

Something that has always intrigued me about coach letters.

LNER omit coach letters A, G and J on mk4 sets and omit A and H on HST sets

GC 180's are lettered B through F

4 coach voyagers are lettered A, C, D, F and 5 coach A, B, C, D, F

Is there any particular reason why TOC's don't just start at A and continue as normal?

I assume the variation in the case of Voyagers is so that the same letter is always the same type of coach layout. The First Class is always in F, the buffet (well, on VT) in D, A is always the end coach.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Something that has always intrigued me about coach letters.

LNER omit coach letters A, G and J on mk4 sets and omit A and H on HST sets

GC 180's are lettered B through F

4 coach voyagers are lettered A, C, D, F and 5 coach A, B, C, D, F

Is there any particular reason why TOC's don't just start at A and continue as normal?

In the case of the Voyagers, coach B is omitted as it is only present on 5 coach Voyagers, and XC want to have the flexibility of using 4 and 5 coach units interchangeably without causing seat reservation problems. Coach E is omitted as Virgin kept the letter free for proposed plans to lengthen all Voyagers to 6 coaches.

 

[virgintrain1]

4 coach voyagers are lettered A, C, D, F and 5 coach A, B, C, D, F

Voyager were built with the possibility of them becoming 6 cars A-F. That never happened so XC could do what VTWC did and replace F with an E. (Although there wheelchair space is also in coach F an HSTs) However it makes a lot sense for coach B to be a unreserved carriage as when a 4 Voyager vice car vice 5 happens or 2 car 170 vice a 3 car no reservations are missing.

 

[43055]

Something that has always intrigued me about coach letters.

LNER omit coach letters A, G and J on mk4 sets and omit A and H on HST sets

GC 180's are lettered B through F

4 coach voyagers are lettered A, C, D, F and 5 coach A, B, C, D, F

Is there any particular reason why TOC's don't just start at A and continue as normal?

I assume the variation in the case of Voyagers is so that the same letter is always the same type of coach layout. The First Class is always in F, the buffet (well, on VT) in D, A is always the end coach.

Well just to confuse the 220/221 problem even more first class is coach A on Cross Country. The reason for no coach E on the voyagers is that the original plan as to increase to 6 coaches ie add coach E at a later date but this has never happened.

Like 6Gman says for the 4 and 5 car voyagers the coach letters are the same so for cross country if a 5 car turns up on a 4 car diagram the same reservations and seats will apply and coach B will be fully unreserved.

EMT 222 fleet could be made simpler though as non of the formations completely line up with each other. Could something similar to the voyagers be done here like coaches ACDH instead of ABDG on a 4 car 222.

HST full A B C D E F(Buffet) G H
HST short A B C D F(Buffet) G?
7 car 222 A B C D(buffet) F G H
5 car 222 A B C(buffet) D(comp) G
4 car 222 A B(buffet) D(comp) G

 

[Qwerty133]

Well just to confuse the 220/221 problem even more first class is coach A on Cross Country. The reason for no coach E on the voyagers is that the original plan as to increase to 6 coaches ie add coach E at a later date but this has never happened.

Like 6Gman says for the 4 and 5 car voyagers the coach letters are the same so for cross country if a 5 car turns up on a 4 car diagram the same reservations and seats will apply and coach B will be fully unreserved.

EMT 222 fleet could be made simpler though as non of the formations completely line up with each other. Could something similar to the voyagers be done here like coaches ACDH instead of ABDG on a 4 car 222.

HST full A B C D E F(Buffet) G H
HST short A B C D F(Buffet) G?
7 car 222 A B C D(buffet) F G H
5 car 222 A B C(buffet) D(comp) G
4 car 222 A B(buffet) D(comp) G

To seperate the different types of coach it'd have to be something like
8 HST ACDEFKLM
6HST ACDG*KM
7 222 BCDH*KLN
5 222 BCHI*N
4 222 BHJ*N
9 222 BCHIN OQRT or BHJN OPQST
10 222 BCHIN OPQST
where A is std end HST coach, B std end 222 coach, CDEF mid standard class coaches, G declassified first, H standard buffet, IJ composites with differing proportions of first, KL mid firsts, M end first HST, N end first 222, and for double 222s O end std, P mid std, Q buffet, RS composite with differing proportions of first, and T end first.
Quite clearly as system with a 4 coach train ending up with a coach N is simply unworkable.