Coal across break in gauge (Standard/Russian)

[Holly]

Coal across a break in gauge (Standard/Russian)

There is some talk of Ukraine urgently obtaining large amounts of coal from Poland. But for the break of gauge, such shipments would obviously go entirely by rail. Perhaps a little by road.

An alternative is to ship by rail from mine to a Baltic port, by sea to a Black sea port and by rail from there to Kiev region.

Does infrastructure exist to move lots of coal across a break in gauge between long distance railways? Poland/Ukraine? Elsewhere in the world? If not what would it look like?

PRETTY PLEASE can we not get into war/politics issues and questions of where the money is to come from. But stick to railway matters.
Thank you.

 

[oldman]

There is a broad (Ukrainian) gauge line already from near Katowice to the border - the Linija Hutnicza Szerokotorowa.

 

[Wolfie]

I imagine that, if they were not already planning to do so, recent events will have prompted the Ukrainians to think about regauging their railways to standard gauge. EU help seems quite likely to be forthcoming...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's a similar but shorter (88km) broad gauge line from Košice in Slovakia to Uzhhorod in Ukraine.
It's used for iron ore transport from Ukraine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzhhorod–Košice_broad-gauge_track

It's a pity Chernobyl power station is out of action for a while...

 

[DownSouth]

Does infrastructure exist to move lots of coal across a break in gauge between long distance railways? Poland/Ukraine? Elsewhere in the world? If not what would it look like?

Bogie exchange wouldn't be an option for coal, it's only ever the correct solution in a very discreet number of special cases.

A bi-level trans-shipment facility would be the way to go, instead of emptying into a conveyer the first train would empty into the second train waiting on a lower level track.

The basic concept (tipping from one wagon into another) is not new, it was used 150 years ago at one particular industrial location in South Australia where there was not space to install a proper spur line. Instead, the wagons bringing the coal in would be emptied into another set of wagons which ran on a short length of track within the industrial facility and set at a right angle to the sidings connected to the mainline.

 

[Ploughman]

Bogie exchange wouldn't be an option for coal, it's only ever the correct solution in a very discreet number of special cases.

A bi-level trans-shipment facility would be the way to go, instead of emptying into a conveyer the first train would empty into the second train waiting on a lower level track.

The basic concept (tipping from one wagon into another) is not new, it was used 150 years ago at one particular industrial location in South Australia where there was not space to install a proper spur line. Instead, the wagons bringing the coal in would be emptied into another set of wagons which ran on a short length of track within the industrial facility and set at a right angle to the sidings connected to the mainline.

Would that be economic?
As a larger gauge would imply a larger capacity of wagon could be used.
But this would be wasted if just tipping direct from one to another.

 

[DownSouth]

As a larger gauge would imply a larger capacity of wagon could be used.
But this would be wasted if just tipping direct from one to another.

This is track gauge that we're talking about, not loading gauge. The two are near enough to completely independent of each other unless we're talking about track gauges narrower than a metre.

Outside of certain routes in North America, coal hoppers tend to be restricted more by axle loads than loading gauges. If you're already hitting the maximum gross mass, a larger wagon will actually be detrimental because the larger tare mass will allow less coal to be loaded before hitting the gross mass limit.

 

[duesselmartin]

containerised coal is always an option

 

[B&W]

As well as the 'Russian' Gauge line which extends well into Poland on the Ukraine side the gauge changing station between Chelm and Kovel had masses of wagon wheel sets and bogies to exchange between the two gauges. Tank wagons of well over 100t weight could be lifted and and re-wheeled as well as box wagons.

Also the standard gauge line extended into Ukraine as far as Kovel running alongside the broad gauge to give an impression of twin track railway.

The last time I travelled on the Berlin - Keiv/Odesa sleeper we passed the MPD for this standard gauge line full of stored standard gauge M62s. Our Ukraine sleeper coach was deemed not fit for travel on German rails so it was added to the train at Frankfurt. This meant I could look out from the end gangway after sun up all across Poland and as far as Kovel where the Odesa coach was shunted off to wait for that evenings Kovel Odesa sleeper train. The only time I have been passenger on a coach being loose shunted shunted and carriage washered. Lifting the coach with everybody still on it to change bogies on it was an exprience as well

Must put up a album on Flickr.

 

[ilkestonian]

Surely if the flow is deemed long term, then a possibility would be an automated discharge facility similar to our 'Merry-go-round' discharge at power stations, coupled with conveyors and hoppers to load the coal quickly into wagons for onward transport.

 

[B&W]

Remember conveyors hoppers tipplers do not work well in the winter conditions you get out there. Bulk load Trains have to be thawed out in steam heated tunnels as they arrive with the cargo totally frozen into the wagons. That said in my experience the railways in Ukraine work well in conditions that UK operators and staff would have given up on long before.

Brian