Collecting ticket requires inserting payment card - what if a physical payment card does not exist?

miklcct

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I bought a set of train tickets yesterday from SWR website and, when collecting the train tickets, I needed to insert the payment card used into the ticket machine.

If I used a virtual card at that time which no corresponding physical card is issued, what should I do to collect the tickets? As some people prefer to use virtual cards, or even one-time-use cards, for online shopping for security purposes.
 
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ClagLover

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That’s a good question. I usually use Apple Pay on Trainline but can collect with my corresponding debit card. I had never considered this issue :s
 

Alex C.

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When you pay with a method of payment which doesn't have an associated card - e.g Apple Pay (which uses a virtual number), Paypal or Gift Vouchers then you will be able to use any card for collection.

I have seen issues when a service like Revolut is used where they can generate virtual debit card numbers - if the system isn't set up correctly then it will ask for this card to be inserted which doesn't exist. SWR won't (unless recently changed) amend bookings to any card collection so the only option would be a refund in those circumstances. I know that WebTIS for example (used by SWR) wouldn't have differentiated in the past but it may be different now.

I've worked with credit card processing before and i'm not actually sure if you can differentiate between a physical and virtual card when used online.
 

JonathanH

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Some booking engines just require a card, rather than the one used to make the booking. Others do require the relevant card. The local ticket machine didn't recognise my credit card, which I had used to buy the ticket, but did allow me to collect using my debit card.
 

Argyle 1980

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Pretty sure ANY card can be inserted to collect. Know that's definitely the case with a warrant and PayPal. Otherwise the ticket office can retrieve it for you normally.
 

zwk500

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If at a staffed station, the booking office should be able to print off your tickets when provided with the booking reference. They may ask for confirmation of ID.
 

trebor79

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The ticket machines round these parts no longer seem to accept my American Express card for collection. Annnoyingly, they ask for the booking reference, and only after entering it pop up a message saying "Card not allowed for fulfillment". Even though I've used that car to buy the tickets, so I just use my debit card to collect them now.
They haven't ever accepted Amex for purchase of tickets, despite claiming that they do and GA telling me they would "look into it" when I complained that there seemed to be a problem.

Some booking engines just require a card, rather than the one used to make the booking. Others do require the relevant card. The local ticket machine didn't recognise my credit card, which I had used to buy the ticket, but did allow me to collect using my debit card.
It would be helpful if there was a list somewhere of which booking engines allow any card fulfillment.

I remember years ago some allowed the tickets to be collected just by inserting the card, without needing to faff around entering the booking reference. I don't think any of them allow this now.
 

island

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Pretty sure ANY card can be inserted to collect. Know that's definitely the case with a warrant and PayPal. Otherwise the ticket office can retrieve it for you normally.
The ticket seller sets a field on the booking database indicating whether the booking may be collected with any card or only with a specified card.
 

Haywain

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It would be helpful if there was a list somewhere of which booking engines allow any card fulfillment.
It would be very helpful to those using card numbers fraudulently, which is why there isn't a list.
I remember years ago some allowed the tickets to be collected just by inserting the card, without needing to faff around entering the booking reference. I don't think any of them allow this now.
That only worked for same card collection, obviously, which meant there wasn't a consistent flow for the collection process.

The ticket seller sets a field on the booking database indicating whether the booking may be collected with any card or only with a specified card.
And in doing so they need to have better fraud prevention measures in place as they are increasing their risk.
 

trebor79

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It would be very helpful to those using card numbers fraudulently, which is why there isn't a list.
How would it's help people using fraudulent card numbers? The tickets have already been paid for when you go to collect them.
That only worked for same card collection, obviously, which meant there wasn't a consistent flow for the collection process.
True, but it was a very helpful feature. It can be quite an awkward faff putting your card away then loading up the booking details on your phone, or finding the scrap of paper in your pocket whilst trying to look after your luggage and with people huffing and puffing behind you.
And you could still have a consistent flow:
"There is a booking(s) associated with this card, do you want to print them?" [The machine already asks you to confirm which journeys you want to print - which has always seemed utterly superfluous to me given you can only use the TOD code once].
"There are no bookings associated with this card. Please enter your booking reference to continue".
 

JonathanH

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And you could still have a consistent flow:
"There is a booking(s) associated with this card, do you want to print them?" [The machine already asks you to confirm which journeys you want to print - which has always seemed utterly superfluous to me given you can only use the TOD code once].
You may have more than one TOD ticket in the system and not want to pick them all up - eg if you are likely to seek a refund - (although I acknowledge that some machines give you an option about which tickets you actually want to print).
 

Haywain

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How would it's help people using fraudulent card numbers? The tickets have already been paid for when you go to collect them.
By telling them where they could use those card numbers?
 

Trackman

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How would it's help people using fraudulent card numbers? The tickets have already been paid for when you go to collect them.
Back in 2007 Manchester Piccadilly got hit with a £1m ticket machine scam, putting the card in to collect did not stop this fraud.
Im having problems quoting this, so google £1m ticket scam Piccadilly.
 
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zwk500

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Back in 2007 Manchester Piccadilly got hit with a £1m ticket machine scam, putting the card in to collect did not stop this fraud.
Im having problems quoting this, so google £1m ticket scam Piccadilly.
 

trebor79

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By telling them where they could use those card numbers?
But you've already paid for the ticket using a verified card at the time of purchase. All you'd be able to do with a fraudulent card is collect someone else's tickets if you managed to get the booking reference from them?
 

Alex365Dash

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But you've already paid for the ticket using a verified card at the time of purchase. All you'd be able to do with a fraudulent card is collect someone else's tickets if you managed to get the booking reference from them?
There’s no point purchasing the ticket if you then can’t collect said ticket.

Although then again, you could always just give someone an e-ticket instead if the flow is enabled for one (which is also very much more trackable than CCST, which is helpful if you’re trying to catch someone committing fraud with a card).
 

zwk500

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But you've already paid for the ticket using a verified card at the time of purchase. All you'd be able to do with a fraudulent card is collect someone else's tickets if you managed to get the booking reference from them?
The scam mentioned earlier was that fraudsters were paying for tickets using stolen details (without possessing the actual card), then collecting the tickets using their own card and flogging them to punters for less than legitimate price. As somebody else was purchasing the ticket originally, the fraudsters were making a rather tidy amount.
 

Haywain

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But you've already paid for the ticket using a verified card at the time of purchase. All you'd be able to do with a fraudulent card is collect someone else's tickets if you managed to get the booking reference from them?
You were talking about any card collection which would not require the physical card used to make the purchase.
 

Bletchleyite

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That only worked for same card collection, obviously, which meant there wasn't a consistent flow for the collection process.

I also recall it being said that people were finding cards on the floor and putting them in the machine to see if there was a ticket, which they could then resell.
 

Kite159

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I had an issue a few weeks ago with Trainsplit as I paid using Google Pay (which generates a virtual card number). Thankfully they changed the order so it could be collected by any card.
 

infobleep

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You were talking about any card collection which would not require the physical card used to make the purchase.
This is what needs to happen when there isn't a physical card but a virtual one.
 

infobleep

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The problem is that there isn't any way (I think) to identify it as a virtual card.
I'm not saying there is. So is this a big fraud issue that is the fault of virtual cards or is it a design flaw with the ticker collection process? Possibly even due to the process being setup before virtual cards coming into existence.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm not saying there is. So is this a big fraud issue that is the fault of virtual cards or is it a design flaw with the ticker collection process? Possibly even due to the process being setup before virtual cards coming into existence.

The answer is simply not to use virtual cards for this application. They do indeed post-date the collection process.
 

Haywain

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So is this a big fraud issue that is the fault of virtual cards or is it a design flaw with the ticker collection process? Possibly even due to the process being setup before virtual cards coming into existence.
I would say that virtual cards are not much of a fraud issue but a big inconvenience issue for those using them and wanting to collect tickets. However, they were not many cases of them being used when I was last doing counter work some 5 years ago, and I don't know whether there are more or less about now - I suspect it's less due to the advance of Apple Pay and Google Pay.
 

infobleep

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I would say that virtual cards are not much of a fraud issue but a big inconvenience issue for those using them and wanting to collect tickets. However, they were not many cases of them being used when I was last doing counter work some 5 years ago, and I don't know whether there are more or less about now - I suspect it's less due to the advance of Apple Pay and Google Pay.
If they aren't a fraud issue, is there a way of allowing them to be used easily that doesn't lead to fraud by other cards
 

JaJaWa

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"The Act allows people to be prosecuted for defrauding a ticket machine, which was not possible under previous legislation." !?
 

Haywain

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If they aren't a fraud issue, is there a way of allowing them to be used easily that doesn't lead to fraud by other cards
Yes - attach (if that’s the right term) the virtual card to Google Pay or Apple Pay, or PayPal.
 

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