Collision Plymouth 03/04/16

[SPADTrap]

One person with life changing injuries reported.

 

[HLE]

One person with life changing injuries reported.

Flippin heck.

This is starting to sound more serious than first reported.

As for speculating on the cause - I'll give that one a miss.
Could have been a number of things

 

[daikilo]

i won't post the speed to avoid giving as fact but using physics formulas it can be calculated how fast a 160t object was travelling to push a 800t object 4ft, but it isn't very fast at all, add in any other factors such a slippery rails and could be even slower.

Not to mention post-collision braking action, and energy absorption by damaged parts and of inter-vehicle connections etc ... Quite complex really!

 

[the sniper]

One person with life changing injuries reported.

Reported where? Seems pretty crazy, unless there was a somewhat freak/unfortunate fall within the train?

 

[TheEdge]

Reported where? Seems pretty crazy, unless there was a somewhat freak/unfortunate fall within the train?

Sudden fall, crack neck or back on something, boom, paralysis. :cry:

 

[endecotp]

using physics formulas it can be calculated how fast a 160t object was travelling to push a 800t object 4ft

No. You also need to know something about the physics of the brakes.

Given initial speeds and masses you can determine speeds the instant after the collision - ignoring the energy absorbed by crumpling - but you can't get a distance from that without some more facts.

 

[DaveHarries]

Unconfirmed report that the HST was shunted some 4 feet which would suggest a bit more than 'low speed' collision.

Also a 4 car unit and a HST wouldn't fit on Platform 6 at Plymouth which is something that will probably be key in the investigation.

Accident looks to involve 2E68 (1339 PNZ - EXD) and 1A91 (1542 PLY - PAD) - according to OTT's maps those are the two trains in Platform 6.

According to RealTimeTrains the HST arrived from Laira Depot at 1500 (22 early) as 5A91 so would have been there well ahead of 2E68 which was not booked to arrive until 1534. I would have thought that the HST driver would have put the brakes on when he arrived as well. I also think that if 2E68 had shunted 1A91 then the damage to 2E68 would have been worse.

I think I know what will be key to the RAIB investigation and it won't be the drivers. You can probably guess what I am thinking and will say no more.

Dave

 

[ScouserGirl]

One person with life changing injuries reported.

How do you know this? The ambulance service reported that everyone was stable!

 

[bnm]

I think I know what will be key to the RAIB investigation and it won't be the drivers. You can probably guess what I am thinking and will say no more.

Platform length?

Regardless, if the unit was permissively signalled then it should have been driven such that it could stop short of any obstruction.

 

[richw]

A passenger has posted on Spotlights Facebook page there is an elderly lady with life changing injuries, not a reliable or medical source to take for definite.

 

[ScouserGirl]

A passenger has posted on Spotlights Facebook page of an elderly lady with life changing injuries, not a reliable or medical source to take for definite.

Am going of what the ambulance service said and that said everyone was stable but you could be stable with life changing injuries we shall see what is realised

 

[PHILIPE]

Accident looks to involve 2E68 (1339 PNZ - EXD) and 1A91 (1542 PLY - PAD) - according to OTT's maps those are the two trains in Platform 6.

According to RealTimeTrains the HST arrived from Laira Depot at 1500 (22 early) as 5A91 so would have been there well ahead of 2E68 which was not booked to arrive until 1534. I would have thought that the HST driver would have put the brakes on when he arrived as well. I also think that if 2E68 had shunted 1A91 then the damage to 2E68 would have been worse.

I think I know what will be key to the RAIB investigation and it won't be the drivers. You can probably guess what I am thinking and will say no more.

Dave

Details of trains identities and Platform posted at start of thread.

 

[richw]

Am going of what the ambulance service said and that said everyone was stable but you could be stable with life changing injuries we shall see what is realised

I would take the ambulance service as more accurate than a passenger posting on Facebook. There is another post on there that a bloke went through a glass partition, To me at least potential scarring or broken glass slicing a nerve would be life changing whilst likely the patient was stable, or even walking wounded

 

[the sniper]

A passenger has posted on Spotlights Facebook page there is an elderly lady with life changing injuries, not a reliable or medical source to take for definite.

Ah ok, that put's a different perspective on it...

 

[ScouserGirl]

I would take the ambulance service as more accurate than a passenger posting on Facebook. There is another post on there that a bloke went through a glass partition, To me at least potential scarring or broken glass slicing a nerve would be life changing whilst likely the patient was stable, or even walking wounded

That's true! We shall see what happens when it's properly come out

 

[rf_ioliver]

How do you know this? The ambulance service reported that everyone was stable!

Actually the term "stable" doesn't really have any meaning. However its colloquial use means that the patient's condition has stabilised - someone seriously ill in intensive care can be stable.

The main work of the first responders to an incident would be to get all causalities into a state where their condition is known and relatively unchanging, in the sense that they're not getting any worse before they get to a hospital and that the medical personnel have a good idea of what the problem is.

t.

Ian

 

[ScouserGirl]

Actually the term "stable" doesn't really have any meaning. However its colloquial use means that the patient's condition has stabilised - someone seriously ill in intensive care can be stable.

The main work of the first responders to an incident would be to get all causalities into a state where their condition is known and relatively unchanging, in the sense that they're not getting any worse before they get to a hospital and that the medical personnel have a good idea of what the problem is.

t.

Ian

It's just come out on Plymouth Herald that no one is seriously injured! That's what the GWR manager told the Herald!

 

[fgwrich]

A few more front end pictures of the HST & Sprinter here.

https://twitter.com/dominic__1983/status/716641802296672257

 

[DarloRich]

i think we ought to send best wishes to those involved, hope the injured recover swiftly and leave the appropriate bodies to investigate the cause.

 

[chrisdmadd]

Wishing all those passengers involved a speedy recovery.

To ALL staff involved today my thoughts go out to you.

 

[plymothian]

The driver of 2E86 has confirmed he received the correct signal, and all restrictions on P15 have been lifted.

 

[bnm]

The driver of 2E86 has confirmed he received the correct signal, and all restrictions on P15 have been lifted.

The only correct signal in this case would be a permissive "calling on".

 

[crispy1978]

18 injured (BBC Website)

Eighteen people have been injured when two trains collided at a railway station.

Devon and Cornwall Police said the crash at Plymouth Railway Station was a "low impact collision" and they were not aware of any serious injuries.

Emergency services were called to the scene at about 15:35 BST on Sunday.

Eight casualties were going to Derriford Hospital but all were stable, South Western Ambulance said.

"At this stage we believe that a moving train drove into the back of a stationary train on platform 6 at the station, and we are currently looking into the circumstances to determine how this happened", British Transport Police said.

Police have advised people to avoid the station if possible, and said delays were likely for passengers travelling through the Plymouth area.

 

[najaB]

Glad to hear that the reports of life-changing injuries appear to be mistaken.

 

[bb21]

I know it is tempting, but can we refrain from speculating the causes please until the report is out?

Once the report has established the exact causes, that would be the time to discuss various aspects of failures and potential improvements.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Well said!

 

[najaB]

Discussion is encouraged, but when it is about an event that could affect the career(s) of people who are, no doubt, personally known to some members it should be tempered with a little caution.

Especially since, depending on the outcome of the investigation, there's a possibility of criminal charges being raised against the persons involved.

 

[bnm]

Oh and you post about platform 6 was correct, it is 260m (300 if it is okay to block the points into P7) so nowhere near enough long enough.

Indeed. The video on BBC Spotlight's Facebook page shows that barely one carriage of the double 150 has made it onto the platform past the down starting signal P46.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Discussion is fine when you have all of the FACTS.

The problem comes when you get people going into whisper mode and then unfounded rumours/conjecture and start flying about.

This incident will fall into the remit of RAIB, all of the data will be downloaded from the OTDR, Signalbox data recorders, voice/communications recorders & if fitted FFCCTV as well, so that all of the information can be assimilated, analyzed and the blame correctly apportioned.

 

[Jovian98]

Discussion is fine when you have all of the FACTS.

The problem comes when you get people going into whisper mode and then unfounded rumours/conjecture and start flying about.

This incident will fall into the remit of RAIB, all of the data will be downloaded from the OTDR, Signalbox data recorders, voice/communications recorders & if fitted FFCCTV as well, so that all of the information can be assimilated, analyzed and the blame correctly apportioned.

I know the AAIB don't play the blame game, are the RAIB any different