Combining Oyster and National Rail Fare

[DynamicSpirit]

Travelling from London Waterloo to Guildford. If I already hold an Oyster travelcard that will take me to zone 4 (Raynes Park), is it OK to just buy a ticket from Raynes Park to Guildford at the start of the journey (so I can just stay on the train at Raynes Park)?

I'm guessing that, since Oyster travelcard gives no penalty if you don't touch out, then there's absolutely no problem if I get a slow train from London to Guildford that stops at Raynes Park - since if the conductor wants to check the tickets, I just show them either the travelcard or the ticket, depending whereabouts the train is. But I'm curious to know what the situation would be if I caught a fast train - eg. one that runs non-stop from Waterloo to Woking?

I'm using this as an example because I may well be making that actual journey soon, but I'm also curious about the general case... If you have two valid tickets that between them clearly cover the whole journey, but the train you're taking doesn't stop at the station where the tickets 'swap over' - is that allowed?

 

[bb21]

If the travelcard is a season ticket, ie. lasting a week or longer, then you are covered under NRCoC Condition 19(c) and can travel on a non-stop train.

A ticket from Boundary Zone 4 is cheaper.

 

[yorkie]

Travelling from London Waterloo to Guildford. If I already hold an Oyster travelcard that will take me to zone 4 (Raynes Park), is it OK to just buy a ticket from Raynes Park to Guildford at the start of the journey (so I can just stay on the train at Raynes Park)?

Yes.

I'm guessing that, since Oyster travelcard gives no penalty if you don't touch out, then there's absolutely no problem if I get a slow train from London to Guildford that stops at Raynes Park

There is no need to board a train that calls at Raynes Park. National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCoC) Condition 19 allows one season ticket (ie, a Travelcard - regardless of the medium in which it is held) and any number of non-season tickets to be used for one journey (with no requirement for the train to call) proving the tickets cover the entire journey.

- since if the conductor wants to check the tickets

Guards on fast trains on this route may check tickets.
Guards on trains that call at Raynes Park do not check tickets as they are non-commercial. Inspections are carried out by revenue protection officers/inspectors (RPO/RPIs).

I just show them either the travelcard or the ticket, depending whereabouts the train is. But I'm curious to know what the situation would be if I caught a fast train - eg. one that runs non-stop from Waterloo to Woking?

Then you will need to show both tickets.

I'm using this as an example because I may well be making that actual journey soon, but I'm also curious about the general case... If you have two valid tickets that between them clearly cover the whole journey, but the train you're taking doesn't stop at the station where the tickets 'swap over' - is that allowed?

The exact rule is as follows:-
www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire
journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one
ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include
Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport
executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.
​

You must comply with any restriction shown on the tickets relating to travel in the trains of
a particular Train Company or Train Companies (see Condition 10).

If you do not comply with this Condition, you will be treated as having joined the train
without a ticket and the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply, either to the entire
journey, or from the last station where the train stopped at which at least one of the
tickets was valid.

For the purposes of this Condition, a “leisure travel pass” means any multi-journey ticket
(excluding Season Tickets) valid for:

(i) at least 7 consecutive days; or
(ii) at least 3 days in a period of at least 7 consecutive days
​

and includes rover tickets, travel passes, flexipass tickets and Britrail passes.

I have highlighted in red the specific part that applies to your query.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Cool, thanks bb21. That looks a useful link you've given. And yes, the travelcard will be for at least a week.

One follow-up question: The relevent part of 19(c) includes:

one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include
Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport
executive or local authority)

I was under the impression that an Oyster Travelcard was a TfL thing, not a National Rail thing. Are you saying that it doesn't fall under the 'passenger transport executive' exclusion, and so does count as a valid season ticket?

(Edit. x-post with Yorkie. Ta for the clarification)

 

[yorkie]

Cool, thanks bb21. That looks a useful link you've given. And yes, the travelcard will be for at least a week.

It would have to be at least a week, considering the fact that a One Day Travelcard cannot be stored on an Oyster Card

One follow-up question: The relevant part of 19(c) includes:

one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include
Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport
executive or local authority)

I was under the impression that an Oyster Travelcard was a TfL thing, not a National Rail thing. Are you saying that it doesn't fall under the 'passenger transport executive' exclusion, and so does count as a valid season ticket?

It's a joint thing, and it is correct that TfL does not fall under the PTE exclusion, and yes Travelcard Seasons do count as valid Season tickets for the purpose of NRCoC Condition 19.

Fares from Raynes Park to Guildford (std class):

Anytime Day Single £8.00
Off Peak Day Return £9.90
Anytime Day Return £15.00

Fares from Boundary Zone 4 to Guildford:

Anytime Day Single £6.60
Off Peak Day Return £9.20
Anytime Day Return £12.70

Therefore, I recommend purchasing a ticket from Boundary Zone 4 instead, as they are cheaper.

Furthermore, a Boundary Zone 4 ticket is a "Zonal" ticket, that is a Travelcard extension. This means that the older of a One Day Travelcard can use such a ticket on a non-stop train (as well as the holder of a Travelcard Season).

Note that Boundary Zone tickets are only available from ticket offices (ie, not from ticket vending machines (TVMs) or online), and you are likely to be asked to show your Travelcard when you purchase one.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Thanks. That's what I wanted to know. And wow, I'm well impressed by such quick, and apparently very knowledgeable, responses here!

 

[barrykas]

It would have to be at least a week, considering the fact that a One Day Travelcard cannot be stored on an Oyster Card

Apparently they can now. Was checking someone's Oyster for our Revenue Team last week and it had a Day Travelcard loaded onto it. Not entirely sure how they managed that, as I couldn't replicate it on my TIS.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[ajdunlop]

Changing the subject slightly. I had a problem last year were I used my season ticket (not on oyster) for the first part of my journey and then an advanced ticket for the second half. I was goong to use trains recommend in the NRE journey planner but my 1st train was late and so missed the second service. The staff at the station said I would have to buy a new ticket but when I talked to the guard they were happy to let me board. Surely I should have been ok as it was a preceding train that delayed me.
I suppose I have 2 questions:
1) if you split ticket and the 2nd is and advanced but the 1st is delayed and you miss the 2nd is your 2nd ticket now useless or should you be accommodated on the next train? (I would assume that if allowed you would have to get the next train with that ToC).
2) as there is a special rule for extending a journey beyond a station on a season ticket if combined with an advanced ticket does that change things?

 

[yorkie]

Changing the subject slightly. I had a problem last year were I used my season ticket (not on oyster) for the first part of my journey and then an advanced ticket for the second half. I was goong to use trains recommend in the NRE journey planner but my 1st train was late and so missed the second service. The staff at the station said I would have to buy a new ticket but when I talked to the guard they were happy to let me board. Surely I should have been ok as it was a preceding train that delayed me.

Providing you allow sufficient time for the interchange, you are covered in the event of delays. See Advance Fares FAQs.

I suppose I have 2 questions:
1) if you split ticket and the 2nd is and advanced but the 1st is delayed and you miss the 2nd is your 2nd ticket now useless or should you be accommodated on the next train? (I would assume that if allowed you would have to get the next train with that ToC).

You may combine two or more tickets, providing you are compliant with Condition 19, for one journey. You are covered in the event of delays to your journey, in which case Advance tickets allow you to complete the journey on later trains. However this was clarified in the Advance Fares FAQs, so there is no doubt any more.

Any staff who argue otherwise are incorrect, and I would ask "Can you look up Advance Fares FAQs in The Manual please?" if a member of staff claims otherwise. They will then be able to read the correct information.

2) as there is a special rule for extending a journey beyond a station on a season ticket if combined with an advanced ticket does that change things?

Do you have a particular scenario & itinerary in mind?

 

[island]

Apparently they can now. Was checking someone's Oyster for our Revenue Team last week and it had a Day Travelcard loaded onto it. Not entirely sure how they managed that, as I couldn't replicate it on my TIS.

Cheers,

Barry

That's very interesting.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Guards on fast trains on this route may check tickets.
Guards on trains that call at Raynes Park do not check tickets as they are non-commercial. Inspections are carried out by revenue protection officers/inspectors (RPO/RPIs).

Not 100% related to the original question, but could I just clarify that Commercial Guards (who check and issue tickets) work on ALL South West Trains routes, it is just rare to see them on Suburban stopper services but they do work them from time to time, therefore it is not guaranteed that you won't get your ticket checked (regardless of RPI blocks).

I have been on quite a few Suburban trains, mainly commuting to work, where there has been a Commercial Guard onboard and they have checked tickets, it's just not often because on stopping sevices you have to do the doors every few minutes hence it's difficult to also walk the train and check and issue tickets!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's very interesting.

I agree, I've never seen a one day travelcard loaded onto someone's Oyster card, most of the time it's just the relevant PAYG credit added to equate to the Travelcard price.

 

[bkhtele]

Only slightly off theme: Would condition 19 apply to the FGW Thames branches day ranger or only the Thames Rover. Specifically could I use it with a day return Swindon to Tilehurst on a non stop train? Tilehurst is valid for day ranger from 20/5

 

[bb21]

Only slightly off theme: Would condition 19 apply to the FGW Thames branches day ranger or only the Thames Rover. Specifically could I use it with a day return Swindon to Tilehurst on a non stop train? Tilehurst is valid for day ranger from 20/5

Condition 19(c) applies to situations where one of the tickets held is a leisure travel pass valid for at least 3 days in 7. So you may not travel through the changeover point without the train stopping with a Day Ranger, but you may with a Thames Rover.