Ok, Manchester Clipper using the River Irwell from Media City to Victoria (potential to extend to Eccles if the locks don't take too long to go through).
I witnessed two consecutive arrivals at the Seacombe terminal and there were about 30 commuters on each. If the Wirral Waters development around Birkenhead East Float ever gets off the ground, the ferry would be an attractive commute for residents: ten minutes walk and ten minutes on the ferry to Liverpool city centre.How many people commute on the Mersey Ferry?
Is that the larger or smaller lock?20 minuites to go through the small lock at Mode Wheel.
30... Is that it!? That is really low given the amount of cross river commuters. I suppose multi modal isn't really attractive given the bus is £15 a week to the terminal then £14.50 for a ferry weekly (or £24.50 if you get a TRIO ticket for B1 and C1). For it to be worthwhile, you have to be just a ferry user and not use the bus to connect in at either end. Could that be the issue with the Mersey Ferries.I witnessed two consecutive arrivals at the Seacombe terminal and there were about 30 commuters on each. If the Wirral Waters development around Birkenhead East Float ever gets off the ground, the ferry would be an attractive commute for residents: ten minutes walk and ten minutes on the ferry to Liverpool city centre.
6 crew? 4 isn't it. Captain and 3 others with 1 normally on cafe duties. Trains in London can have 3 crew depending on operator (Driver, guard & buffet trolley).Ferries are fine if there's no viable fixed link option. The Thames Clippers are a bit odd, really- they're a premium product (compared to the equivalent rail options, they cost more), have a max speed of a little over 30mph, on an indirect route, and require something like 6 staff on each boat, for only 200 or so passengers.
Which is why the proposed idea of running services from out in the estuary into central London will never happen beyond the pilot ones. They burn huge amounts of fuel, especially when pushing upstream on an ebb tide.
The sorts of trains competing with the Thames Clipper will have one or two staff members not three, for a similar seating capacity on the Tube and about double on the main line, with far higher capacity if standing is taken into account (not allowed on the Clipper).6 crew? 4 isn't it. Captain and 3 others with 1 normally on cafe duties. Trains in London can have 3 crew depending on operator (Driver, guard & buffet trolley).
While they may be slightly more expensive, people pay it for the fact they are guaranteed a seat and it can be quicker than using land transport depending on their end destination.
The Thames Clippers have carved out a nice little niche for themselves, but a niche it remains. It's rarely quicker but it is more scenic and it can be more comfortable. A lovely way home as a treat on a summer's evening; I used it out to Chiswick when meeting friends as it was just *nice*.
I can't see many other places which have rivers as accommodating as the Thames for high-speed river traffic though. As I said upthread, the Tyne has a speed limit of 6 knots and the Clyde isn't much faster at 12 knots. You're not going to develop a network of commuter ferries at those sorts of speeds. Unless you're going straight from one bank to the other it's simply too slow.
12 knot speed limit between Wandsworth Bridge and Margaretness ((just east of London City Airport!)The journey became significantly slower around 2008 I think, when the Port of London Authority placed a blanket speed restriction west of Tower Bridge (might be five knots but don't quote me on that).
Is that the larger or smaller lock?
20 minutes is a long time. Wow. Ok, perhaps that wouldn't prove so attractive. Unless Media City into the city was very quick but I can't see it being that quick.
How many people commute on the Mersey Ferry?
What sort of routes are you suggesting? I'd like to see more use of our waterways to take traffic off the roads but there needs to be demand for it. Canals are fairly unsuitable for commuting unless you're happy getting to or from work at 4mph.
I think that's unlikely. Getting near the centre of either city involves passing through locks, which as mentioned above will take a lot of time.A ferry service between Cardiff and Bristol (or other location across the Bristol Channel) would be on the long side but might be viable, though take a few years to build a market
When you look at the map it certainly "feels" that there should be a link. Bristol is on a river that pretty well dries out at low tide. Looking at the OS map there doesn't appear to be anywhere that a boat could berth at all states of the tide. Across the river it looks like a similar situation at both Cardiff and Newport. Even if piers were provided, once you add in the journey to the coast at both ends the fixed link looks like a better option on time.A ferry service between Cardiff and Bristol (or other location across the Bristol Channel) would be on the long side but might be viable, though take a few years to build a market, cant think of any other possible new ferry services.
Not sure if the locks at Hotwells can be used at a all states of the tide. If so a cross-Severn ferry of suitable size could dock at any of the landing points used by the current Floating Harbour ferry, this waterway being originally part of the tidal Avon but the locks now mean it is not tidal. However going through the locks is time-consuming. The alternative would be to continue up the tidal New Cut, but the nearest point on this is closer to the city centre and it would need some sort of rising/lowering quay somewhere around there.When you look at the map it certainly "feels" that there should be a link. Bristol is on a river that pretty well dries out at low tide. Looking at the OS map there doesn't appear to be anywhere that a boat could berth at all states of the tide. Across the river it looks like a similar situation at both Cardiff and Newport. Even if piers were provided, once you add in the journey to the coast at both ends the fixed link looks like a better option on time.
Snap! Argostoli - Lixori (I would have said vv) is definitely a commuter route, and I also missed the Bristol Ferry the first time I tried to use it too. It worked out OK a year later...Argostoli - Lixori (Kefalonia) has to be in with a shout. Its a long way round by road
I would have used the Bristol ferry from TM station to Bristol Bridge in the morning but the train arrived a few minutes too late. Or a lot later (It was 2001, just after Hatfield)
Ferries only generally make sense where the overland alternative is non-existent (islands) or very much longer (estuaries etc). Usually when this happens there is also a demand for transport of vehicles. So passenger-only ferries are quite rare and when they exist there is often a crossing for vehicles not too far away...
I would offer Kilcreggan to Dunoon too. I can't find the timetable, but it feeds into the trains to Glasgow Central. There is no car ferry alternative that I know of in this case....Dunoon to Gourock , commuters use it to Glasgow.
According to my navagation notes for the Tidal Avon, Passaged through the locks is three hours before high water until 48 minutes after, although lockings do not normally take place after high water.. At low tide the depth on the new cut is less than three feet at low tide with just the river flow.Not sure if the locks at Hotwells can be used at a all states of the tide. If so a cross-Severn ferry of suitable size could dock at any of the landing points used by the current Floating Harbour ferry, this waterway being originally part of the tidal Avon but the locks now mean it is not tidal. However going through the locks is time-consuming. The alternative would be to continue up the tidal New Cut, but the nearest point on this is closer to the city centre and it would need some sort of rising/lowering quay somewhere around there.
Puts the kybosh very firmly on that idea then.According to my navagation notes for the Tidal Avon, Passaged through the locks is three hours before high water until 48 minutes after, although lockings do not normally take place after high water.. At low tide the depth on the new cut is less than three feet at low tide with just the river flow.
Snap! Argostoli - Lixori (I would have said vv) is definitely a commuter route, and I also missed the Bristol Ferry the first time I tried to use it too. It worked out OK a year later...
I would offer Kilcreggan to Dunoon too. I can't find the timetable, but it feeds into the trains to Glasgow Central. There is no car ferry alternative that I know of in this case....
You are right, it goes to Gourock. I've been on it, but I still can't find the timetable online. Fares, but no times. http://www.spt.co.uk/kilcreggan-ferry/There is no Kilcreggan to Dunoon ferry