Commuter 'tries to push past blind man' on escalator at London Bridge

[Silver Cobra]

Just spotted this on the ITV news a moment ago, and found an article and video on the BBC News website, regarding an impatient commuter trying to push his way past a blind man on the down escalator at London Bridge underground station.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-eng...-bridge-commuter-tries-to-push-past-blind-man

Staff at London Bridge station had to ask a commuter to stop trying to push past a blind person on the escalator.

Amit Patel and his guide dog, Kika, were on their way to the Tube platform when someone behind them tried to get past.

Other commuters could not tolerate his "inconsiderate" behaviour.

ITV posed the question "What would your reaction be?" to this, so I'd be interested to hear what you all think.

 

[Ianno87]

Well the assisting member of staff remained calm and professional throughout the clip. Well done to them in that situation.

 

[Busaholic]

I now walk with a stick, and am nearly 70, but am otherwise reasonably abled. I'd not hesitate to let this selfish person know what I thought of their actions, just as I did last summer when an unthinking couple left their car on an (illegal) parking space for an hour, in the burning sun, with dog gasping for breath as no window was left open. When they returned to the car (before police arrived) somebody reproached them, they couldn't care less and were abusive back, then the woman looked at me, standing there with my stick, and raised her eyebrows as though expecting me to sympathise with her: she was a little taken aback when I disabused her of that notion, firmly but politely. They quickly left, muttering.

 

[yorkie]

Well the assisting member of staff remained calm and professional throughout the clip. Well done to them in that situation.

Indeed. That is exactly how to handle such situations!

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The same blind gentleman is making the news again, this time complaining that other passengers wouldn't give up their seats in the disabled section for him.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...ats-in-disability-priority-section/ar-BBKPb45

 

[Bletchleyite]

The same blind gentleman is making the news again, this time complaining that other passengers wouldn't give up their seats in the disabled section for him.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...ats-in-disability-priority-section/ar-BBKPb45

Interesting point, as priority seating tends to be labelled as being for those less able to stand. I'm not totally clear why a sensory disability makes him less able to stand than someone with, say, a leg injury. (We don't know what other disabilities or other factors the other passengers had). It also sounds like he didn't ask if he could have a seat.

I'm not sure what the dog's feelings have to do with it, as under no circumstances may a dog of any kind occupy a seat, and the whole floor will have been wet if the bit by the door was.

FWIW, personally I would have given him a seat, priority or otherwise, if he asked me (or clearly out loud) politely to do so. I would not otherwise assume he wanted one, as people sometimes take offence at it for some reason.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

I'm a little surprised guide dogs aren't trained to tuck themselves out of the way in front of their owner on escalators to avoid being tripped over by someone who doesn't notice them down on the step below. It's also possibly a bit patronising to assume that a sight impairment means someone is incapable of stepping aside to let someone else past.

 

[Mojo]

I'm a little surprised guide dogs aren't trained to tuck themselves out of the way in front of their owner on escalators to avoid being tripped over by someone who doesn't notice them down on the step below.

It is not that long that guide dogs have been allowed to travel on escalators at all, so I think that training them to stand in one place could potentially be hazardous and perhaps asking quite a bit. Many ‘models’ are not able to use them at all.

The same blind gentleman is making the news again, this time complaining that other passengers wouldn't give up their seats in the disabled section for him.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...ats-in-disability-priority-section/ar-BBKPb45

I saw the original photos from Twitter. I am not sure what is meant by the “disabled priority section” however the photo of the outside of the train is of the wheelchair space, as far as I’m aware this is just to designate the wheelchair space, not some kind of priority section for disabled customers. A customer not able to stand would be able to use priority seats which are located throughout the train. In fact for someone hoping for a seat the “disabled section” (as it’s been referred to) is the least likely place to find a priority seat!

 

[Daniel]

Regarding why someone with a sensory disability may need a seat, if a train suddenly stops a completely blind person can’t see a pole to hang on to.

Regarding dogs tucking themselves out of the way. They are trained to do this, but it requires the person to be sitting. The dogs then occupy the space between their legs and the seat.

Regarding the ‘models’ of dogs using the escalator. There is no newer ‘version’ of dog. Escalators are dangerous for dogs. As such the Guide Dogs only attempt to train a guide dog to use an escalator if necessary, and the owner regularly uses an underground escalator several times a week. Not all dogs are able to perform the action - it’s up to the dogs’ individual temperament. If the dog doesn’t take to the training then it can’t use escalators, and if that’s an issue for the blind person it won’t be matched for them. A guide dog not from the London team would not be trained (or attempted to be trained) on an escalator. Even if a guide dog is trained on an escalator, it is only permitted to use escalators on London Underground for various reasons. This means even if your guide dog is escalator train you couldn’t use the escalators at your local shopping centres.

Whilst I don’t like the way Kika’s guide dog owners stories are sometimes sensationalised, and that he’s being picked up as a spokesperson for all blind person by some companies (including TfL, it would seem), you cannot deny that his methods draw attention to some of the difficulties encountered by blind persons in London.

If you have any other questions about Guide Dogs for the blind and ‘how they work’ then feel free to ask.

 

[philthetube]

Regarding why someone with a sensory disability may need a seat, if a train suddenly stops a completely blind person can’t see a pole to hang on to.

If a train stops suddenly, (and they only do that if they hit something or derail) it is too late for anyone to try to grab poles. A blind person is as capable of finding a pole to hold on to as a priority seat, however I would always offer a seat to a blind or other disabled passenger and feel it is sad that others often don't.

I am both amazed that guide dogs can cope with escalators and surprised that the underground allow them to use them.

 

[westv]

Not sure about anybody else but I always keep hold of something when I'm standing on the tube.

 

[rebmcr]

Not sure about anybody else but I always keep hold of something when I'm standing on the tube.

Everybody has to do this (or lean against something). The people who don't know this find out quickly enough as soon as the train begins to move!

 

[yorksrob]

Wouldn't someone with a dog of any description be better off using the lift - particularly as it is customary for people to walk down/up the escalator on the right.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Everybody has to do this (or lean against something). The people who don't know this find out quickly enough as soon as the train begins to move!

I don't usually hold on at all - and I can keep on my feet the whole length of a line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't usually hold on at all - and I can keep on my feet the whole length of a line.

"Tube surfing" can be fun, though probably not if you have a disability.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

"Tube surfing" can be fun, though probably not if you have a disability.

Is that what it's called? I thought "surfing" was to do with the idiots who ride on the outside?

This might be a good place to add that I don't have a full sense of balance; my left ear is implanted... I'm relying very heavily on memory of the "feel" of the track and, when possible, being able to see what the carriage in front is doing.

 

[rebmcr]

Wouldn't someone with a dog of any description be better off using the lift - particularly as it is customary for people to walk down/up the escalator on the right.

Many tube stations are accessible only by escalator.

 

[yorksrob]

Many tube stations are accessible only by escalator.

Ah cheers. I assumed that they all had lifts (given that the lifts generally came before the escalators).

 

[jopsuk]

Some stations were built lift only (with emergency steps. And in a few cases steps from the lifts to the platforms, making them non-accessible for persons of reduced mobility). A few of them remain so. Some were were converted to escalator only.
Many more were built escalator only or steps only. Some of those have subsequently been fitted with lifts (much smaller than the ones at lift-only stations).
Newer stations (Jubilee line extension onwards, and all of the DLR) were built with step-free access provision from the start (though with steps and escalators for the main flow).

This actually includes London Bridge, where the JLE project also ensured the lifts accessed the existing Northern Line platforms. But it's hardly uncommon to be travelling on the Underground and hear an announcement that lifts at a station are out of action. Given Mr Patel had a staff escort I'd guess that was the situation on that day.

 

[Ianno87]

At London Bridge, lift access to the Jubilee Line is only via the main line station ticket hall, whilst the Northern Line is only via the Borough High Street ticket hall, I believe. It's quite a street-level walk between the two!

 

[Mojo]

This actually includes London Bridge, where the JLE project also ensured the lifts accessed the existing Northern Line platforms. But it's hardly uncommon to be travelling on the Underground and hear an announcement that lifts at a station are out of action. Given Mr Patel had a staff escort I'd guess that was the situation on that day.

Even if they weren't; travelling by escalator might be the best way for speed. Some locations travelling by lift can take significantly longer, and/or involve excessive walking.

 

[edwin_m]

Some stations were built lift only (with emergency steps. And in a few cases steps from the lifts to the platforms, making them non-accessible for persons of reduced mobility). A few of them remain so. Some were were converted to escalator only.
Many more were built escalator only or steps only. Some of those have subsequently been fitted with lifts (much smaller than the ones at lift-only stations).

I'd say most tube stations built with lifts only (historically, before the advent of escalators) would have had steps from the lower lift lobby down to the platforms. This is because the earlier tubes were built under roads to avoid problems with property owners, but the lifts would have had to be over to one side so they finished up in the station building.

 

[Daniel]

If a train stops suddenly, (and they only do that if they hit something or derail) it is too late for anyone to try to grab poles.

Trains stop suddenly all the time. Loss of door close visuals being one of the most common reasons on the tube.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I'd still give up my seat to a blind person 100%. Yes there legs may work but not being able to see would make standing (especially on the tube) harder. They would not know if they were in the way at stations and I cannot imagine standing is as easy without that sense.

I am lucky enough to have maintained all my senses, if someone blind wants my seat then they can crack on.

 

[edwin_m]

Trains stop suddenly all the time. Loss of door close visuals being one of the most common reasons on the tube.

However the stop will be nowhere near as rough as a bus can achieve, except perhaps if electromagnetic track brakes are fitted and used.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd still give up my seat to a blind person 100%. Yes there legs may work but not being able to see would make standing (especially on the tube) harder. They would not know if they were in the way at stations and I cannot imagine standing is as easy without that sense.

I am lucky enough to have maintained all my senses, if someone blind wants my seat then they can crack on.

I would too, but only if they asked me (or made a clearly audible request to everyone). I don't assume that people want a seat just because they are visibly disabled in some form; that causes offence to some these days. The dog sniffing around is not enough of an indication; dogs sniff around as standard. Nor is him saying to the dog "find me a seat", that statement says to me "find me an empty seat if there is one", not "ask someone to give their seat up".

This kind of thing is much, much easier if people simply talk to one another and stop assuming - on both sides. All it takes is something like "I find it difficult to stand, can I have a seat, please"?

 

[Bucephalus]

Even if they weren't; travelling by escalator might be the best way for speed. Some locations travelling by lift can take significantly longer, and/or involve excessive walking.

Oh yes, I remember changing from central to h & c at kings cross with the buggy as a novice. I think it took 15 minutes

 

[AM9]

Oh yes, I remember changing from central to h & c at kings cross with the buggy as a novice. I think it took 15 minutes

"central" at Kings Cross?

 

[Bucephalus]

"central" at Kings Cross?

Sorry, I meant Victoria line from Walthamstow central. Whoops! Central line was what I wished I'd carried on to