Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

[xotGD]

A whole load of Boots branches getting the chop too.

Thousands more job losses.

We are going to see announcements like this day after day.

 

[Mojo]

A whole load of Boots branches getting the chop too

Boots are saying they are not planning on closing any normal shops, only 48 of their their standalone opticians. There will however be instore and HQ job losses.

 

[37424]

Boots are saying they are not planning on closing any normal shops, only 48 of their their standalone opticians. There will however be instore and HQ job losses.

I'm surprised they are not closing some of their normal shops, I expect many survive on their function as a pharmacy but most of the rest of the things they sell are usually top price and can be obtained elsewhere these days. Last store I was in looked like a business in decline.

 

[Dai Corner]

One of our girls has (had) a part time job in the Costa in Debenhams in Exeter.
To be fair to Costa they seem to treat their staff really well, but I advised her a couple of months ago to try and find another job in case Debenhams goes straight to the wall after all this and Costa don’t have any other vacancies nearby.
Thankfully she’s starting work in a group home working with people with learning disabilities next week (the same place that one of her stepsisters works at occasionally), and I think it’ll do her some good working in that field for a while.

Whenever I've been in Debenhams the coffee shop has been the busiest part!

Good luck to your girl in whatever career she pursues.

 

[johntea]

I'm surprised WHSmith haven't announced anything yet (apart from 150 potential cuts at head office), the argument in the past has their rail and air operations have helped support the other retail operations but I can't see that being the case at the moment with deserted train stations and airports!

 

[SteveM70]

The problem with physical shops like JL is they’re incredibly space hungry - wide aisles, lots of space around displays etc. So the basic metric of profit per square foot isn’t great to begin with, and has suffered more due to price competition and also that nowadays a lot of consumer goods last longer than they used to.

I read that the shop in Birmingham is 250,000 square feet, and that the Grand Central development cost £150 million. You can imagine how eye watering their lease costs could be given JL is a big chunk of the space.

I suspect JL is headed down the M&S route, steadily moving from a department store that sold food (in their case via Waitrose) to a food retailer with a sideline in general merchandise. And you only have to look at the difference in profit margins between GM (especially clothes) and food to realise what a slippery slope that is

 

[C J Snarzell]

I'm surprised WHSmith haven't announced anything yet (apart from 150 potential cuts at head office), the argument in the past has their rail and air operations have helped support the other retail operations but I can't see that being the case at the moment with deserted train stations and airports!

I'm very surprised WHSmiths haven't at least tried to streamline their stores. The one in my home town has definitely seen better days with tables full of clearance books and board games they cannot sell, almost out of date confectionery with WHS whoopsy stickers on them in cardboard bins and some magazines are left on display for months past their publishing date.

Many years ago, when the same shop was known as John Menzies it felt like a really vibrant department store with a dedicated shop manager who was there for many years and had a team of staff and even a store detective. Sadly, they are all long gone - there is only a couple of staff members floating around these days and they don't even cover the tills all the time - self service seems the way forward!

In cities like Lancaster & York, the general post offices have closed their and moved in with WHS. It is a potentially money saving idea and it will probably work in their favour bringing in revenue.

The biggest issue with WHS and Waterstone's is the fact they sell the books at full publishing prices - where as new releases in hardback or paperback can be purchased from Asda or Tesco for half the price.

In times of social austerity with massive unemployment caused by Covid 19 are people really going to be forking out full prices for luxury items they can buy cheaper elsewhere? Also will WHS and Waterstone' s stay afloat with more people using Kindle devices and reverting to more modern e-books?

CJ

 

[xotGD]

Also will WHS and Waterstone' s stay afloat with more people using Kindle devices and reverting to more modern e-books?

I thought that Kindle use was in decline with people going back to proper books?

 

[43096]

Heelas opens again on July 30th.

Crikey, which decade are you in?! It hasn’t been branded as Heelas since 2001.

 

[43096]

As always, it shows that outsourcing costs money instead of saving money.

Sweeping generalisation alert! Making such statements is usually a good sign of lack of knowledge: there is no way you can confidently claim outsourcing always costs money.

 

[jfollows]

Sweeping generalisation alert! Making such statements is usually a good sign of lack of knowledge: there is no way you can confidently claim outsourcing always costs money.

It is a huge generalisation, but I would agree that it contains more than a grain of truth.

I worked for IBM for more than 20 years, but I left when the company stopped investing in its employees and instead bought point solutions, outsourced, and so on. It continued for a while on its reputation for good staff, but its customers discovered they were getting the same outsourced staff they could have paid for themselves, and paid a lot less. IBM is still a big company and makes a lot of money, but it's conspicuously less successful than it was in the past. I left when I could because I felt I was giving IBM unreasonably more than IBM was giving me in return, which had not been the case between 1984 and 2007.

I think that when companies stop investing in staff, for example by outsourcing, that it's often - but not necessarily always of course - the start of the slope into decline. Staff who don't feel part of the overall company goal communicate that to customers, who realise that what they had been paying for is no longer there. So I think John Lewis is going down that path now - the new leader has sacrificed the one unique selling point they had (good service) on the altar of saving costs. Significantly reduced revenue will result, which will lead to further cost cutting initiatives. And so on.

EDIT: The other point about John Lewis, I think, is whether it's trying to change whilst retaining its existing customer base, or if it's trying to reinvent itself so that it attracts different (and hopefully more) customers. I think it's failed with its customer base, at least if the frequency of complaints reported in The Guardian and The Times that I and other middle-class customers read is anything to go on, but it may have success with attracting other customers. Personally I don't think it will, but time will tell.

 

[thejuggler]

Waterstones always have offers on popular new releases.

However publishing in general is having a tough time. The UK has two major book distributors and one of them, Bertrams, went into administration a few months ago.

 

[trebor79]

The biggest issue with WHS and Waterstone's is the fact they sell the books at full publishing prices - where as new releases in hardback or paperback can be purchased from Asda or Tesco for half the price.

In times of social austerity with massive unemployment caused by Covid 19 are people really going to be forking out full prices for luxury items they can buy cheaper elsewhere? Also will WHS and Waterstone' s stay afloat with more people using Kindle devices and reverting to more modern e-books?

The supermarkets only carry a tiny range of "bestsellers". So if you're happy to have a selection of a few dozen generic thrillers, romances and detective novels, buy your books from the supermarket.
I'm pretty sure the rise of the ebook and Kindle is over, people want physical books. Waterstones lost its way for a while selling ebook readers and other technology junk. I'm pleased it has reverted to a proper bookshop in more recent years.

 

[superjohn]

I thought that Kindle use was in decline with people going back to proper books?

I think it is more down to people routinely carrying tablets on which they can read ebooks in situations where they might previously have used a Kindle. A single purpose device like that has been rendered rather obsolete. Audiobooks and podcasts have also grown enormously in popularity.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Making such statements is usually a good sign of lack of knowledge: there is no way you can confidently claim outsourcing always costs money.

If you are outsourcing to buy in expertise that you don't have in your company then the process works. If you're not, then it mostly doesn't, although I'm sure there are a few examples where it has worked.

If it costs you £x to run a contact centre, and the outsourcer is offering to charge you £x-y, then something doesn't add up. What usually happens is the outsourcer pays less to its staff- meaning less capable staff work for them- and also recharges separately for all the "little extras" that in-house staff did for free.

Look at John Lewis. They transferred contact centre functions to Sitel and Capita about five years ago to save money. In the short term they saved money. But in the longer term they lost their USP of excellent customer service, which comes from employees having a stake in the company. The Guardian- prime John Lewis territory- has been booting them for the last couple of years. So has The Times. Guardian readers are generally middle-class wealthy people who will happily pay more for ethics. Capita doesn't really fit in with that.

Ultimately, why pay the John Lewis premium if the contact centre is in Manila and the delivery is organised by Capita, just like the cheaper alternatives?

 

[Tetchytyke]

A single purpose device like that has been rendered rather obsolete.

Definitely, just as smartphones and tablets killed off mp3 players and Walkmans, they've done the same for e-readers. Especially as the Kindle isn't actually very good.

Waterstones have gone back to selling books and selling books well. But Waterstones are the last ones standing in a reduced market, so they will be OK because Borders, etc, were not OK. It's nice to see that Waterstones have gone back to what they do- sell books- rather than having acres of shop floor dedicated to e-readers, board games and Harry Potter tat.

 

[jfollows]

If you are outsourcing to buy in expertise that you don't have in your company then the process works. If you're not, then it mostly doesn't, although I'm sure there are a few examples where it has worked.

I agree with this, and of course the rest of your post.
My IBM experience is that if outsourcing is to obtain expertise instead of retraining existing staff to provide the same expertise, then you demotivate the existing staff. IBM had a long history of recruiting and training people, and part of the deal was that people were willing to retrain and take the initiative to do so - I did a number of completely different jobs and did them all well.
The company changed so it no longer suited me to work there, so I left. Fair enough. But I think it's another example of a short-term tactical approach, often driven by short-term incentive funding for senior staff, which drives longer term issues. So maybe outsourcing works for a short-term requirement which can't be delivered from existing resources, but it seems to become a way of life which is ultimately detrimental to the company. In many cases, at least.

 

[37424]

I agree with this, and of course the rest of your post.
My IBM experience is that if outsourcing is to obtain expertise instead of retraining existing staff to provide the same expertise, then you demotivate the existing staff. IBM had a long history of recruiting and training people, and part of the deal was that people were willing to retrain and take the initiative to do so - I did a number of completely different jobs and did them all well.
The company changed so it no longer suited me to work there, so I left. Fair enough. But I think it's another example of a short-term tactical approach, often driven by short-term incentive funding for senior staff, which drives longer term issues. So maybe outsourcing works for a short-term requirement which can't be delivered from existing resources, but it seems to become a way of life which is ultimately detrimental to the company. In many cases, at least.

Well that's right when my IT Department was outsourced the senior management said we didn't add any value to the company, so now they pay more for a much worse service, and the people who had real expertise on the company's bespoke systems were made redundant.

 

[Tetchytyke]

the senior management said we didn't add any value to the company

And that's the other issue, a short-term management view that if you're not revenue-generating you don't bring value. IT is usually the first function to go, which is brilliant until your revenue-generating systems topple over and the outsourcer doesn't share your level of urgency. A university I used to work for outsourced IT and the first day-long system outage almost certainly cost more than the alleged savings. The same university outsourced catering, too; it would have been quite a bit cheaper to buy Pret catering for events and meetings, but obviously we weren't allowed to. Of course we did it anyway as often as we could get away with it, but hush.

Customer services- usually dealing with complaints and refunds- are another function ripe for outsourcing. Complaints are bad for the bottom line, so it is no big deal if people can't complain. Except that if customers don't have their complaints resolved they don't come back, and tell all their friends not to come back, and that is bad for business if your USP is customer service.

I've never bought a big ticket item from John Lewis because I know people who've had terrible experiences with even basic stuff like delivering a sofa. And that's leaving aside the stories in the papers.

 

[Peter Sarf]

And that's the other issue, a short-term management view that if you're not revenue-generating you don't bring value. IT is usually the first function to go, which is brilliant until your revenue-generating systems topple over and the outsourcer doesn't share your level of urgency. A university I used to work for outsourced IT and the first day-long system outage almost certainly cost more than the alleged savings. The same university outsourced catering, too; it would have been quite a bit cheaper to buy Pret catering for events and meetings, but obviously we weren't allowed to. Of course we did it anyway as often as we could get away with it, but hush.

Customer services- usually dealing with complaints and refunds- are another function ripe for outsourcing. Complaints are bad for the bottom line, so it is no big deal if people can't complain. Except that if customers don't have their complaints resolved they don't come back, and tell all their friends not to come back, and that is bad for business if your USP is customer service.

I've never bought a big ticket item from John Lewis because I know people who've had terrible experiences with even basic stuff like delivering a sofa. And that's leaving aside the stories in the papers.

It a couple of years ago that we bought a new cooker. We had no problems and delivery was uneventful. But we did not go to the Out-Of-Town Croydon John Lewis very often. We used to go to the big Allders in central Croydon a lot and always for white goods. However we watched that become less and less inspiring and gave up a while before it became an outlet village that has now closed just before COVID-19.

 

[37424]

And that's the other issue, a short-term management view that if you're not revenue-generating you don't bring value. IT is usually the first function to go, which is brilliant until your revenue-generating systems topple over and the outsourcer doesn't share your level of urgency. A university I used to work for outsourced IT and the first day-long system outage almost certainly cost more than the alleged savings. The same university outsourced catering, too; it would have been quite a bit cheaper to buy Pret catering for events and meetings, but obviously we weren't allowed to. Of course we did it anyway as often as we could get away with it, but hush.

Customer services- usually dealing with complaints and refunds- are another function ripe for outsourcing. Complaints are bad for the bottom line, so it is no big deal if people can't complain. Except that if customers don't have their complaints resolved they don't come back, and tell all their friends not to come back, and that is bad for business if your USP is customer service.

I've never bought a big ticket item from John Lewis because I know people who've had terrible experiences with even basic stuff like delivering a sofa. And that's leaving aside the stories in the papers.

Well the Retail company I work for doesn't seem to be that much in favour of outsourcing in fact they have even decided to buy their own delivery vans now instead of using a leasing company. But of course it only takes a change in top management for what I would call an 'outsourcing clown' and it can all change.

What particularly annoyed me when I was outsourced was that these so called consultants came along and came out with average figures for various tasks such as PC support, and our's were far to high, but what they didn't take account of was the fact that this was an engineering company with a shop floor and a task which might take 30mins in an office could take a couple of hours on the shop floor by the time you had put your PPE on, and got required permissions and work permits in some cases. It also of course ignored the fact we knew all the systems, knew the site, knew most of the people, compared to a service desk and support centre's thousands of miles away.

 

[SteveM70]

[

What particularly annoyed me when I was outsourced was that these so called consultants came along and came out with average figures for various tasks such as PC support, and our's were far to high, but what they didn't take account of was the fact that this was an engineering company with a shop floor and a task which might take 30mins in an office could take a couple of hours on the shop floor by the time you had put your PPE on, and got required permissions and work permits in some cases. It also of course ignored the fact we knew all the systems, knew the site, knew most of the people, compared to a service desk and support centre's thousands of miles away.

And that’s exactly how consultants and outsourcing companies work. Price the job based on best case assumptions, win the job, then when reality bites either fall back on the contract if they can, or go cap in hand if they can’t

 

[Peter Sarf]

What I have learnt is that many UK companies are run by financial bods or people with business degrees. Usually no practical experience of the product or processes. They have no way of factoring quality or customer satisfaction into their equations. It is also believed (and reasonably true) that it is cheaper to advertise and attract customers than it is to keep the ones you already have. But when you run out of potential new customers guess what happens - you run out of customers.

For example the London Bridge fiasco. No one high up seemed to want to consider that the timetable was impossible with so many tracks out of use during the remodelling. Then we have the timetable fiasco(s).

 

[Tetchytyke]

It also of course ignored the fact we knew all the systems, knew the site, knew most of the people, compared to a service desk and support centre's thousands of miles away.

That's how it works, the sales tactic is to show that the in-house staff are really inefficient, expensive and bloated. The outsourcers, by contrast, are lean and efficient and that's how they undercut the in-house costs.

Nonsense, of course, but when it's on a spreadsheet it looks appealing. And once you've signed the deal, you find out that the stuff you used to get for free wasn't included in the contract after all. You can amend the contract, but it'll cost ya.

Of course the big consultancy firms are closely linked with the outsourcers too...

What I have learnt is that many UK companies are run by financial bods or people with business degrees. Usually no practical experience of the product or processes.

The MBA is one of the most toxic things to have ever graced these shores.

 

[SteveM70]

What I have learnt is that many UK companies are run by financial bods or people with business degrees

treasurers.org info.....

This was the most common path for a CEO, according to the annual study, with 52% having finance experience, while 21% of FTSE 100 chief executives have a background in retail and hospitality, 17% in engineering and natural resources, 14% in marketing and 11% in technology.

 

[westv]

Q Magazine to close after 34 years

"The pandemic did for us," says the editor of the UK's biggest rock magazine.

www.bbc.co.uk

Q Magazine, a cornerstone of rock journalism in the UK, is to close after 34 years.

"The pandemic did for us and there was nothing more to it than that," said the editor Ted Kessler in a tweet.

He also shared the editor's letter for the final issue, due on 28 July, in which he said: "I must apologise for my failure to keep Q afloat."

 

[Jamiescott1]

This is one that's surely been on a downward spiral for years. Who actually buys magazines anymore ?
I used to buy lots including fhm and mixmag but haven't been in whsmith for years

 

[AdamWW]

This is one that's surely been on a downward spiral for years. Who actually buys magazines anymore ?
I used to buy lots including fhm and mixmag but haven't been in whsmith for years

Somebody must be buying all the railway magazines on the shelfs of Smiths.

 

[Busaholic]

Who actually buys magazines anymore ?

My wife and I jointly keep the magazine industry afloat, I sometimes feel, but even I am more picky in what I buy now, as price increases are getting ridiculous.

 

[birchesgreen]

This is one that's surely been on a downward spiral for years. Who actually buys magazines anymore ?
I used to buy lots including fhm and mixmag but haven't been in whsmith for years

Indeed, the pandemic (and the closure of most Smiths) may have been the final nail but the coffin lid had been applied some time ago!