Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

[FQTV]

Remember that fifty years ago most people NEVER ate out, they used to cook.

Absolutely; I think that this is something that a lot of folks under (say) the age of thirty genuinely don’t realise. As an example, as a child in the late 1970s and 1980s, places like York had traditional pubs, some cafés and a smattering of Department store and hotel restaurants. Finding somewhere for lunch was actually quite tricky, I remember.

My parents were middle class, and we lived in London. We NEVER EVER ate out, even on annual holiday, when all your meals were supplied in the guest house. I do remember once being taken by my grandfather for lunch in the local department store, as a special treat for something or other.

As above, department store dining was a real treat, often with an extra buzz on market days. I’ll never forget being a wide eyed child in Binns in Darlington and Barker’s in Northallerton - the latter with white table cloths, waitresses in black frocks with white aprons; the lot. Not a pastiche - that’s how it was. I remember this, and I’m only in my forties, which shows how quickly this whole industry of dining as a leisure pastime industry has grown.

 

[trebor79]

I was talking about think with a friend last week. It is also my view that eating out will go back to how it was 20 or 30 years ago - once in a blue moon as a treat or special occassion for most people. And really that's no bad thing. There are an awful lot of chain restaurants serving very uninspiring food with lacklustre service. Quite often I find they serve dressed up and nicely presented junk food. In their place will grow independents serving exciting food that is worth paying a premium for.
The "casual dining" sector will be taken care of by McDonalds, Burger King, KFC and perhaps one or two of the better chains such as Wagamama or a slimmed down Pizza Express. The rest will fall away and not really be missed.

I also recall department store lunches as part of an all day traipse around the shops. They were mostly quite nice actually!

The only time we ever ate out as a family was very occassionally on a birthday, and later on when my parents had a little more money we might have a meal or two out during our self-catering holiday fortnight away somewhere in England.

 

[xotGD]

Travelex has done a pre-pack deal that saves 1,800 jobs, but 1,300 jobs are lost. The High Street shops and airport branches that were closed during lockdown will not reopen.

I don't know about anyone else, but I generally just get cash out of an ATM at my arrival airport.

I remember a fellow ferry passenger in Croatia who had got cash from their travel agent in the UK. However, it turned out to be Slovakian Koruna rather than Croatian Kuna!

 

[DavidGrain]

When I was younger, eating out on holiday meant the Fish & Chip shop and sitting on a bench or in the car.

In time I got to like the department store or large supermarkets for a meal, obviously at lunch time but many of them have gone now.

 

[johnnychips]

Yes, my family, whom I would describe as middle-income used to book ‘full-board’ at the hotel we stayed at. There was no question of eating out.

 

[Bald Rick]

Like other posters, I went through my entire childhood (70s, 80s and early 90s) without once eating out as a family.

Similarly, eating out on holiday was a bag of chips on a bench overlooking the harbour. Wonderful it was too.

I vividly remember my Dad being aghast at some neighbours who had gone to a restaurant in Guildford in the late 80s and spent £70 between the two of them - roughly £200 now. And now, for many people (in London and the south east at least) that would be quite normal - including some quality wine, obviously.

 

[GusB]

We would eat out occasionally during my childhood. It certainly wasn't an everyweek occurrence, but at the same time it wasn't really that rare either. If I was in town with both parents it was inevitable that my mum would insist on having a sit-down and a cuppa at some point. This usually mean a Scotch pie and a Coke in the Lido - I remember the big jukebox with the 45s with big holes in the middle, and the polished network of pipes and urns that made up the coffee machine that seemed to stretch along the length of the counter. If it was a particularly hot day, we'd have an ice cream on the way out.

My parents were working class, but eating out wasn't that rare an occurrence.

 

[cactustwirly]

Our Manufacturing GDP is a disgrace at the side of Germany considering we used to be major manufacturers, its even worse than Italy now, plus a potential no deal could be a double whammy as it likely affect sectors that been less affected by the virus more such as Manufacturing/Food and Agriculture.

For a while in Hospitality there has been too many business chasing too few customers and this has just made it a whole lot worse, and the writing has been on the wall for retail and the high street for some time, but as you say rather than it happening gradually it going to come in a big lump.

Some people talk about working from home as if its something new but it isn't I worked occasionally from home 15 years ago it was more practical from around 2013 when fibre to cabinet broadband arrived, but I think a number of companies in this country were slow to adopt, but now having seen potential advantages the consequences for those businesses that are dependent on office footfall are clearly not going to be good, and potentially another big lump of unemployment.

I work in the manufacturing industry, our product is niche so we are able to manufacture in the UK competitively, but just about. It's simply not competitive to manufacture goods here anymore, when you can manufacture in China for 1/4 the price.

 

[cactustwirly]

I would never seek to dismiss or even downplay the anxiety and economic impact that employees might face, but the point is that the whole sector has been spiralling towards this for years, and thousands have already lost their jobs over the past few, with 'the system' still steaming on and those folks being given little to no specific support when they're on the receiving end of another CVA.

This sudden acceleration in the trend does shine a spotlight on the unsustainability of the whole commercial rental property and venture capital/fund managed/investment backed 'concepts' in retail and hospitality, especially in shopping centres. If that means that the folks at the sharp end do get some support to get through the inevitable, because the scale of the problem can no longer be ignored, then that may be a small upside.



This is part of the problem with these types of places.

They're perceived as pricey by a large proportion of the popoulation, but not special enough by another large proportion to be an everyday choice. There are not enough people to patronise these places say, once a month, for a special treat, when there are so many of these places vying for business. Their rents and often the locations that they operate in mean that they must be open seven days a week, often 365 days a year, so they absolutely must drive custom way beyond the special occasion. To try and do so, they're the ones who have dumped '2-4-1' type vouchers into the market for quiet time dining, which then serves to dilute the proposition when trying to charge full price at busier times.

As an aside, this is likely to be a problem with the Eat Out to Help Out scheme, too. A proportion of folks won't pay £20 on a Thursday for what was £10 on a Wednesday, so the effect is diluted.

My hope is that, at the end of this, local and more independent, privately owned and perhaps more freehold restaurants and cafes can find themselves doing far better, working on a more level playing field without the likes of Pizza Express with unsustainable institutional support covering £1.6m of debt per restaurant being (I'd argue) unfair competition down the road. They'll also employ more people per £ of spend (small independents almost always do) and some of those spat out by the chains find better employment with them as a result.

I don't think that's the problem at all, the good chains such as Wagamama's aren't closing many restaurants. It's the bad ones like Bella Italia and Frankie and Benny's that are. I also think it's a symptom that Italian restaurants are going out of fashion compared to more exotic cuisine's.
These restaurants are no more pricey than your average pub food these days anyway.

 

[37424]

I work in the manufacturing industry, our product is niche so we are able to manufacture in the UK competitively, but just about. It's simply not competitive to manufacture goods here anymore, when you can manufacture in China for 1/4 the price.

Yes its not that easy against China but it doesn't help selling our manufacturing off to any foreign company that's wants it, yes sometimes they invest but frequently the don't, the European owned steel company I worked for, UK plants were shut in favour of European ones. As I said our manufacturing GDP against Germany is dire about a quarter, and they don't have cheap Labour costs, yes they have a reputation for better engineered products, hence our roads being littered with German Cars, although I think a lot German Cars and products are distinctly overrated these days and we should be able to build decent competative products in this country.

And now we have the Germans trying to take over the Supermarket sector with Aldi and Lidl.

 

[John Griffiths]

They have 14.3% in total. That's a long way from having come anywhere near to taking over. And their MO is scarcely secret or unable to be copied.

 

[37424]

They have 14.3% in total. That's a long way from having come anywhere near to taking over. And their MO is scarcely secret or unable to be copied.

14.3% is substancial especially compared to 10 years ago and about the only new supermarkets being built certainly where I live are Aldi and Lidl.

The latest estimates from the Bank of England seem to be suggesting things wont be quite as bad as some were predicting but there are clearly so many unknowns at present, possible second wave and how bad, also our future relationship with the EU, so the list of companies expected to disappear has a long way to go yet.

 

[richw]

the only new supermarkets being built certainly where I live are Aldi and Lid

Likewise here in Cornwall both have been in the news for having plans for several new stores of each

 

[61653 HTAFC]

They have 14.3% in total. That's a long way from having come anywhere near to taking over. And their MO is scarcely secret or unable to be copied.

Tesco tried to copy Aldiddle with their "discount brands" range a few years ago, but the quality of the stuff just wasn't up to scratch (though I think they're still trying it). To be honest Tesco really ought to have me as a regular as I live practically next to a big Tesco Extra... however for such a big store the range is pretty poor, and the offers are always "3 for £10" type things which isn't ideal for a single-person household. Unless I'm in a fix, I'll spend 15mins on the bus and go to Morrisons instead, or 15mins on the train to the Lidl. The savings probably cover a good chunk of my fare even though I'm not using an MCard due to the Covid situation.

 

[richw]

Tesco

I’ve always found Tesco to be the most expensive of the supermarkets (except Waitrose of course)

 

[cactustwirly]

Tesco tried to copy Aldiddle with their "discount brands" range a few years ago, but the quality of the stuff just wasn't up to scratch (though I think they're still trying it). To be honest Tesco really ought to have me as a regular as I live practically next to a big Tesco Extra... however for such a big store the range is pretty poor, and the offers are always "3 for £10" type things which isn't ideal for a single-person household. Unless I'm in a fix, I'll spend 15mins on the bus and go to Morrisons instead, or 15mins on the train to the Lidl. The savings probably cover a good chunk of my fare even though I'm not using an MCard due to the Covid situation.

But surely Morrison's is more expensive than Tesco, but with poorer quality food. Well that's my experience anyway.

 

[richw]

But surely Morrison's is more expensive than Tesco, but with poorer quality food. Well that's my experience anyway.

Tesco is by far the most expensive excluding Waitrose in these parts

 

[pdq]

But surely Morrison's is more expensive than Tesco, but with poorer quality food. Well that's my experience anyway.

Definitely not. Morrisons sell good quality fresh meat and fish with proper butchers and fishmongers on site. My local Tesco Extra sells virtually no fish and only prepacked meat. Possibly the range of chilled meals is better in Tesco but Morrisons is my supermarket of choice, even though, like @61653 HTAFC, Tesco is my nearest store.

 

[FQTV]

I don't think that's the problem at all, the good chains such as Wagamama's aren't closing many restaurants. It's the bad ones like Bella Italia and Frankie and Benny's that are. I also think it's a symptom that Italian restaurants are going out of fashion compared to more exotic cuisine's.
These restaurants are no more pricey than your average pub food these days anyway.

The Restaurant Group, which owns Wagamama and Frankie & Benny’s, announced well before Coronavirus that it was going to close ninety sites overall. That was just under a third of all of them.

It’s true that, at that stage, the axe was to fall hardest on the likes of F&Bs in their portfolio.

However, they have since announced that they are reviewing all the remaining sites again, and have already closed two Wagamamas in London that weren’t on the original list.

It really doesn’t matter how subjectively popular they are; it’s the business model that’s shot to pieces, and Wagamama will be (at least in the short term) particularly badly affected by the fact that such a lot of their branches are in covered shopping centres, which are struggling most with footfall at the moment.

 

[xotGD]

Tesco is by far the most expensive excluding Waitrose in these parts

You don't have an M&S Simply Food then?

Makes Waitrose seem cheap!

Meanwhile non-supermarket food delivery operations have been surging during the lockdown. Riverford and Able & Cole have struggled to keep up with demand.

 

[jfollows]

Meanwhile non-supermarket food delivery operations have been surging during the lockdown. Riverford and Able & Cole have struggled to keep up with demand.

Although I can't say they're cheap, I was already a customer of Abel & Cole but I now get more from them than I used to, and I haven't been to a supermarket since March in person, in fact I've not been to any kind of shop since March. When this is over, I'll probably revert to getting some of my shopping from Sainsbury's, but maybe not as much as before. A lot of the non-food stuff I used to get from a supermarket I buy online, and I use an online butcher now thanks to a pointer from Avanti West Coast (one of their suppliers normally).

I've been buying stuff online for ever, so I'm not a recent convert, but even so I'm going to avoid more hassle involved with shopping in future. I miss the occasional foray into the weird little shops in Manchester, for example, once in a while.

I'm not avoiding shops because I'm excessively worried, it's just that I can't see how shopping in person is anything other than an unpleasant experience, and I've been tipped over to do all my shopping online now, rather than just a lot of it.

 

[DavidGrain]

Except for supermarkets and pharmacies, I have not been in a shop for years. I have long bought clothes and household items by mail order so the switch to online shopping came easily to me. I did go into a House of Frazer store at the beginning of the year just to use their toilets. They were in the process of closing down and half their floors were blocked off.

My nearest large shop, only 50 yards from me, is FarmFoods which is basically a frozen foods store mainly with 3 for £x pricing and only a limited range of dry groceries. I have a Tesco, not particularly large but with a large car park and a Sainsbury's similarly not particularly large but with a large car park both about a mile from me in opposite directions. Since March I have limited my shopping expeditions to once per 3 or 4 weeks. (I have not used a bus or train since March).

 

[SussexLad]

I’ve always found Tesco to be the most expensive of the supermarkets (except Waitrose of course)

I remember that Haywards Heath had the uks most expensive sainsburys at one point. When the waitrose opened at the train station, it was cheaper than sainsbury for some things!

Not surprisingly, waitrose did very well and continues to do so.

 

[Busaholic]

I remember that Haywards Heath had the uks most expensive sainsburys at one point. When the waitrose opened at the train station, it was cheaper than sainsbury for some things!

Not surprisingly, waitrose did very well and continues to do so.

Penzance has sold its soul, and a great deal of land just outside town, to the supermarkets, first Safeway (now Morrison's), then Tesco and, for a few years now. Sainsburys. The ambience in Sainsburys is better than in the others, but it is definitely more expensive. I'd say Morrison's is slightly cheaper than Tesco, but neither have the range that the larger Sainsburys does.

 

[Bobdogs]

I’ve always found Tesco to be the most expensive of the supermarkets (except Waitrose of course)

I’ve always found Tesco to be the most expensive of the supermarkets (except Waitrose of course)

My local Tesco has posters proclaiming"Same price as Aldi". Yes but inferior quality.

 

[xotGD]

I haven't been to a supermarket since March in person, in fact I've not been to any kind of shop since March.

I'm the same. No longer shielding, but no need to change the on-line shopping habit.

 

[Trackman]

Tesco tried to copy Aldiddle with their "discount brands" range a few years ago, but the quality of the stuff just wasn't up to scratch (though I think they're still trying it).

Asda went the whole hog in the late 80's, I think the stores were called 'Dales' there was one in Harpurhey but it went back to a Asda.

 

[si404]

I’ve always found Tesco to be the most expensive of the supermarkets (except Waitrose of course)

A recent survey found that almost to be true - but Waitrose was cheaper than Tescos.

When the waitrose opened at the train station, it was cheaper than sainsbury for some things!

Waitrose has never really deserved this reputation of being much more expensive - on average it's about the same price as the others for what it sells, but the issue is what it doesn't sell. The own-brand and discount ranges are more limited than other supermarkets (especially the discount range) meaning buying branded items is more common. Products involving animals has to meet a high minimum welfare standard (eg all their eggs are free-range). Waitrose isn't expensive, it just doesn't sell cheap stuff.

It's a little like sister-company John Lewis' "Never Knowingly Undersold" promise, though Waitrose doesn't have the promise to refund you the difference and lower its prices should you find somewhere selling the same stuff cheaper. Often it's the cheaper than rivals for the same stuff, normally there's not much in it. However, those rivals will have some lower-quality similar stuff that's cheaper, or offers, or both.

I used to live near a Safeway, which got bought up by Morrisons in an overextension that meant that they sold that branch to Waitrose. When the store was rebranded as a Waitrose, a lot of people I knew decided not to go, and instead use the Somerfield (or was it a CoOp by then? - certainly it was one not long afterwards) Convenience store along the road because Waitrose was pre-judged as "too expensive". I found that prices didn't change much from Morrisons (or Safeway before it), and that the convenience store was only cheaper for some items (normally as the quality was less), but many were significantly more expensive (in part as their own brand selection was even more limited than Waitrose's), meaning a cheaper basket in Waitrose.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Are any of these companies ones that you expect to disappear soon?

 

[cactustwirly]

Definitely not. Morrisons sell good quality fresh meat and fish with proper butchers and fishmongers on site. My local Tesco Extra sells virtually no fish and only prepacked meat. Possibly the range of chilled meals is better in Tesco but Morrisons is my supermarket of choice, even though, like @61653 HTAFC, Tesco is my nearest store.

I don't go to a supermarket for a butchers...
The rest of the food is of an inferior quality, just about better than Asda, but the prices are definitely more expensive than Tesco.
Plus the stores are disgusting, in dire need of refurbishment