Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

[nlogax]

Talking of knock on effects and complications, I wonder if we'll see any impact on shopping centres and the like.
Given Debenhams often occupy large (and so presumably expensive) units that are quite often the anchor store for a centre. Southgate in Bath is a good example of such a place that I am thinking about where the Debenhams unit is huge compared to most of the other units.

I imagine there'll be knock-on issues, no doubt at all. Malls have been in a shaky state over the last few years and Debenhams disappearing will exacerbate their demise. On Twitter, DeadmallsUK continues to document where things are heading and it's pretty depressing.

 

[birchesgreen]

The shopping centre near me already has loads of empty spaces (the Debenhams already closed), if the Arcadia shops close too it will have more empty than occupied slots.

 

[DavidGrain]

Talking of anchor stores, in Birmingham across the Grand Central and Bull Ring centres which are under common ownership, there were three anchor stores John Lewis, Debenhams and Selfridges. John Lewis, a new store did not reopen after the March lockdown, Debenhams will now go just leaving Selfridges. Not far away is Primark's store which opened last year claiming to be their largest store. The former Rackhams/House of Frazer store is being redeveloped as residential/sporting/restaurant/retail.

 

[C J Snarzell]

For a town centre like Wigan, the closure of Debenhams is a massive blow.

We lost Marks & Spencer last year and more recently DWs flagship sports store. The town's Debenhams takes centre stage at the end of the Grand Arcade which was a multi-million pound mall opened in 2007.

There is also a large Topshop in there too - I am assuming they are going along with Debenhams if they are part of the Arcadia group.

Today's news feels like the final nails to the commercial coffin of smaller towns that have suffered the loss of other large businesses in the last few years.

CJ

 

[philjo]

The Grafton Centre in Cambridge had C&A (now occupied by Next), BHS and Debenhams as the 3 main stores. There is the cinema and restaurants at the back plus the car parks. There is a largish Boots. Most of the smaller stores remaining including Next and Boots have another branch elsewhere in the city centre within a 15 minute walk.
The Debenhams was not particularly well stocked so in recent years I tended to stay in the city centre shops.

I suspect that Next and M&S would gain most from the demise of Debenhams as they tended to have stores in the same areas, though M&S also closed some smaller branches last year.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Debenhams really are leaning over a cliff edge and have been for sometime. The collapse of Arcadia is a massive issue for Debenhams as JD Sports have pulled out of the 'bailout' plan. If Debenhams go over the edge, 12,000 jobs are gone, adding yet more economic misery.

They reckon by the summer of next year, around 8% of the UK population aged between 18 and 65 will be unemployed. I think its set to be the highest on record since the national statistics began fifty years ago.

CJ

If the UB40 song one-in-ten is anything to go by then it was 10% in the late 70s to early 80s. Mind you, in those days, the figures included more types of people. So these days 8% means more than 8% if calculated the way they did it in the 1980s.

The shopping centre near me already has loads of empty spaces (the Debenhams already closed), if the Arcadia shops close too it will have more empty than occupied slots.

That is just what i was wondering about Croydon.

For a town centre like Wigan, the closure of Debenhams is a massive blow.

We lost Marks & Spencer last year and more recently DWs flagship sports store. The town's Debenhams takes centre stage at the end of the Grand Arcade which was a multi-million pound mall opened in 2007.

There is also a large Topshop in there too - I am assuming they are going along with Debenhams if they are part of the Arcadia group.

Today's news feels like the final nails to the commercial coffin of smaller towns that have suffered the loss of other large businesses in the last few years.

CJ

I think that is true for larger towns as well. Croydon is going to have a lot more empty units - our Debenhams went earlier this year btw. Along with the other Arcadia stores there is going to be a lot less choice/competition. Although realistically I have to reluctantly accept that the competition is on the internet. I wonder what even Oxford Street in central London is going to look like.

The Grafton Centre in Cambridge had C&A (now occupied by Next), BHS and Debenhams as the 3 main stores. There is the cinema and restaurants at the back plus the car parks. There is a largish Boots. Most of the smaller stores remaining including Next and Boots have another branch elsewhere in the city centre within a 15 minute walk.
The Debenhams was not particularly well stocked so in recent years I tended to stay in the city centre shops.

I suspect that Next and M&S would gain most from the demise of Debenhams as they tended to have stores in the same areas, though M&S also closed some smaller branches last year.

Croydon too. We have lost those three. I miss C&A but tbh I was visiting BHS and Debenhams less and less.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I think c&a would do well back in the uk.
Fast fashion like primark, pile it high sell it cheap

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think c&a would do well back in the uk.
Fast fashion like primark, pile it high sell it cheap

Far better quality than Primark. But then that was 20 years ago !. I saw C&A still exist in Germany so maybe not too impossible.

I cannot see myself buying clothes online unless its to buy an identical item that I already have.

 

[philjo]

C&A still have stores in Europe. I visited their stores whilst in Amsterdam and Vienna last year. I still have a couple of C&A shirts bought in the old UK stores that are still perfectly wearable.
M&S are inconsistent with the sizing of men’s clothing recently so 2 items claiming to be the same fit/size : 1 was too tight and the other too large and needed the smaller size ! So M&S generally needs trying on before buying.



I see that Burton and another Arcadia store are also in the Cambridge Grafton centre so that’s potentially 3 stores closing in there.

 

[david1212]

I can't recall exactly when but 20ish years ago in Stratford-upon-Avon the bottom of Bridge Street was redeveloped for BHS. That store was one of the first to close and the building has been empty ever since. 50 years back JC Smith that became Debenhams was the big department store. This store did not reopen in July. Ever since it was redeveloped Bell Court has never flourished.

The only large store now trading is M&S. With the Sainsburys Local opposite, relatively large for a Local, these are the only two food stores. Tesco & Safeway ( now Morrisons ) moved out of town. 50 years ago as I recall there was Tesco, Fine Fare, International, Liptons, David Gregg and the Co-op then Baxters and/or Dewhurst, MacFisheries, at least two fruit & vegetable shops, bakers etc .... For a while early 1970's even Woolworths had a reasonable size food area and delicatessen counter.

Whatever happens the BHS and Debenhams sites will never be predominantly retail again, at best smaller shops just on the ground floor but if a demand that could have been done with BHS.

This is partly why I foresee as the novelty of working from home wears off and companies need groups of staff together not least for training and mentoring of new staff that these will become satellite offices.

12 or so miles away in Leamington Spa not so long ago there was a plan to build over a car park with suggestions that Debenhams would take the store. They then took over a large vacant building on the retail park. This was another store that did not reopen last July. There is a Topshop over two floors in the shopping centre then an Outfit on the retail park. Hence three soon to be vacant sites. Rackhams hangs on for now but how much longer ? Any reuse of the site would almost certainly require division and any retail only on the ground floor.

Coventry city centre has struggled for a long time against out of town retail parks, Birmingham and Solihull. The last time I was there the BHS site was still empty. Debenhams is a big store over three floors. The two other big stores are M&S and Primark ( once Owen Owen then Alders ). The Co-op closed several years ago and I believe has been or is being redeveloped for non retail. Around the fringe many sites have been redeveloped as student accommodation. If in time learning does not return to onsite rather than online alternative uses will have to be found, most logically reconfiguration into larger apartments.

In as little as 10 years I do wonder what will become of city centres, large town centres and smaller towns.

 

[Jamesrob637]

In as little as 10 years I do wonder what will become of city centres, large town centres and smaller towns.

Wetherspoons, a few independent coffee shops, cat cafes and offices! Plus maybe a nightclub or two playing 90s and before hits as the new stuff doesn't cut it even with the younger generation.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Wetherspoons, a few independent coffee shops, cat cafes and offices! Plus maybe a nightclub or two playing 90s and before hits as the new stuff doesn't cut it even with the younger generation.

I don't think we will see a typical Friday & Saturday night time economy boom amongst the licenced premises in many towns again. The era of going out and having hundreds of people pouring into pubs, bars and nightclubs will have gone completely by the time the dust has settled with Covid19. Town centres and maybe city centres too will become very different environments in years to come.

CJ

 

[yorksrob]

Honestly pretty depressing that a chain of shops selling sweatshop made clothing is considered an “aspect of out society”.

So instead similar sweat-shop made clothing sells on Amazon instead.

I wouldn’t shed a tear for Philip Green though.

I will shed a tear for the Debenhams in Wakefield which used to do a decent breakfast on Sunday mornings.

Also, it was the only shop I could find that sold a scarf in summer.

 

[Dai Corner]

And another one

Bonmarché collapses into administration

More than 1,500 jobs are at risk following the collapse of the women's fashion chain.

www.bbc.com

Women's fashion chain Bonmarché has fallen into administration, putting more than 1,500 jobs at risk.

Bonmarché, which has 225 stores around the country, was owned by retail tycoon Philip Day.

His other chains - Edinburgh Woollen Mill, Peacocks and Ponden Home stores - collapsed into administration last month.

Administrators said the stores would continue to trade while options for the business were explored.

 

[swt_passenger]

Debenhams in Southampton always seemed a bit lost, out on a limb even before the “centre” became concentrated at West Quay. I can well imagine it never reopening for retail purposes...

 

[C J Snarzell]

Bon Marche are now going into Administration too.

CJ

 

[philjo]

In recent years the upper floors of a number of town centre stores have been converted to Premier Inn or Travelodge hotels with restaurants or other retail on the ground floor. Though I can’t see much expansion of this type in the near future.

 

[johntea]

How are Poundstretcher doing these days?

Our local one shut down a couple of years (the store was far too big, they literally used half of it as a semi warehouse for stock destined for other branches!), they moved into the old Poundworld site which used to be a Woolies

Walked past this morning and it has now gone with OneBelow moving in ironically! (The chain owned by former Poundworld boss Chris Edwards)

 

[route101]

How are Poundstretcher doing these days?

Our local one shut down a couple of years (the store was far too big, they literally used half of it as a semi warehouse for stock destined for other branches!), they moved into the old Poundworld site which used to be a Woolies

Walked past this morning and it has now gone with OneBelow moving in ironically! (The chain owned by former Poundworld boss Chris Edwards)

I heard they are closing many of their branches.

 

[dgl]

I heard they are closing many of their branches.

The recently opened Poundstretcher in Weymouth has since closed, it was in the ex. 99p stores/courts building. It was Poundstretcher's £1 shop arm for a few months before that.
According to Chris Edwards (ex. Poundworld and now running One Below) claims that during his tenure at Poundstretcher the bosses wouldn't let him actually do anything to save the brand and as such the bosses would buy junk or amounts of product they could never have a hope in hell of selling.
Like all business owners if you aren't making money and you bring someone in to help at least entertain his ideas, Chris Edwards seems to be quite a clever chap, yes he previous business empire bit the dust but he had the sense to get out before it did (and probably made a good buck in the process).

As for Debenehams they were the big anchor store when the New Bond Street development came to Weymouth and it was quite the big thing that Weymouth again had a department store like "proper towns" and in some ways I will be sad to see it go. Like what has previously been said there isn't an awful lot of companies now that would want a building of that size in a town centre, Primark would appear to be the only retailer that believes in large high street stores and so would be a candidate, the only other clothing retailer that might have wanted part of the store would be New Look, so they could have a flagship store in the same area as their head office but their finances aren't exactly rosy at the moment.
Though in a lot of ways we have to be positive, when Woolworths went I didn't think anyone would want to take over their building in New Bond Street as I would have thought Primark would want a bigger store then TKMAXX unexpectedly came along and have been here a few years now and appear to be doing well.

I just hope Goulds in Dorchester survive, not necessarily because I shop there (although their garden centre restaurant in Littlemoor is fantastic) but because it's rare to see independent department stores now and I like to see independents thriving.

 

[Darandio]

According to Chris Edwards (ex. Poundworld and now running One Below) claims that during his tenure at Poundstretcher the bosses wouldn't let him actually do anything to save the brand and as such the bosses would buy junk or amounts of product they could never have a hope in hell of selling.

Like Himalayan salt. Our local Poundstretcher had an entire aisle devoted to it, that's if it is still open because I haven't been round since July or so. It's a useless place, sells everything you don't want and nothing you need.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Poundstretcher seems to be like a rather disorganised and poor version of B&M Bargains and Wilko's (Wilkinson).

I suspect they will go down the same route as Poundworld in the next couple of years with many stores either closing or being taken over by stronger competitors.

CJ

 

[alex397]

I don't think we will see a typical Friday & Saturday night time economy boom amongst the licenced premises in many towns again. The era of going out and having hundreds of people pouring into pubs, bars and nightclubs will have gone completely by the time the dust has settled with Covid19. Town centres and maybe city centres too will become very different environments in years to come.

CJ

I’m not sure about that. While you can now easily get groceries and other goods online, you can’t get the pub or club experience at home, and it’s something I’ve regularly heard people saying they miss this year. I feel most people go to the pub for the experience, to meet people, and get out of the house. Popular pubs were busy pre-Covid, despite being able to buy beer for half, or even quarter the price in a supermarket.

In university towns and cities, going out to a nightclub is a big part of the experience for many.

Live music is still very popular, and continues to be with the younger generations.

So, I feel the hospitality industry has more of a future than high street retail. Although, of course, hospitality is very restricted at the moment. And there sadly will be many casualties, and some towns will suffer more than others I guess.

 

[GusB]

How are Poundstretcher doing these days?

My local branch was closed the last time I visited. It's a pity as they used to have some quite good deals, and their pet section was good for wild bird seed etc. Poundland over the road are still trading, however.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I don't think we will see a typical Friday & Saturday night time economy boom amongst the licenced premises in many towns again. The era of going out and having hundreds of people pouring into pubs, bars and nightclubs will have gone completely by the time the dust has settled with Covid19. Town centres and maybe city centres too will become very different environments in years to come.

CJ

Alex397 has provided an answer to that better worded than I could have. A gradual recovery, and some aspects will inevitably change, but many aspects will go back to how they were prior to March.

 

[david1212]

And another one

Bonmarché collapses into administration

More than 1,500 jobs are at risk following the collapse of the women's fashion chain.

www.bbc.com

Another soon to be vacant unit in Coventry West Orchards shopping centre.

Yesterday I didn't mention Nuneaton. At this rate there will little to draw people to the town centre and smaller stores both chains and independents. First the Co-op then M&S closed a while ago. Topshop closed last year. Now Peacocks, Debenhams & Bonmarché.

Poundstretcher seems to be like a rather disorganised and poor version of B&M Bargains and Wilko's (Wilkinson).

CJ

Indeed. There isn't one anywhere I go regularly. The last two I have been in are Scarborough & Paignton when on holiday Both seemed a mess inside.

I’m not sure about that. While you can now easily get groceries and other goods online, you can’t get the pub or club experience at home, and it’s something I’ve regularly heard people saying they miss this year. I feel most people go to the pub for the experience, to meet people, and get out of the house. Popular pubs were busy pre-Covid, despite being able to buy beer for half, or even quarter the price in a supermarket.

In university towns and cities, going out to a nightclub is a big part of the experience for many.

Live music is still very popular, and continues to be with the younger generations.

So, I feel the hospitality industry has more of a future than high street retail. Although, of course, hospitality is very restricted at the moment. And there sadly will be many casualties, and some towns will suffer more than others I guess.

I agree. While nightclubs remain closed and sadly the current operators / owners may go under first the building will remain and can be reopened quickly at relatively low cost.

It is some of the smaller quieter pubs where viability was already marginal which will not reopen, particularly if already really needing a refurb.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I agree. While nightclubs remain closed and sadly the current operators / owners may go under first the building will remain and can be reopened quickly at relatively low cost.

That is running under the assumption they don't get sold off / earmarked for flats or new development in the meantime though.

 

[PhilipRdNGauge]

That is running under the assumption they don't get sold off / earmarked for flats or new development in the meantime though.

That for me is the real danger. Far too many good pubs have been deconsecrated & sold off for housing before the current crisis I wonder how many will be left when it's over. I'm sure many large pub chains are already looking at their estate & their high debt burdens & wondering what can be sold off to developers for a quick profit. Perhaps the only way to protect the future of our pubs would be a change in planning laws to prohibit change of use.

 

[FQTV]

That for me is the real danger. Far too many good pubs have been deconsecrated & sold off for housing before the current crisis I wonder how many will be left when it's over. I'm sure many large pub chains are already looking at their estate & their high debt burdens & wondering what can be sold off to developers for a quick profit. Perhaps the only way to protect the future of our pubs would be a change in planning laws to prohibit change of use.

I suspect that, locally, everyone will have their own experiences and assessments of how things may have changed as far as the licensed trade is concerned - and there'll be a wide range of experiences, assessments and opinions; not one universal one.

To take my immediate area, two pubs have closed in recent years, both of which were 'PubCo' owned and of the fairly large kind that were built between the 1930s and 1950s in roadside suburban residential locations. Having stood empty for a while, both have been converted. One has become a Sainsbury's Local, and the other split between a Co-op and a Greggs. I'm bang between the two, about a twelve minute walk from both. Both sites have been well-patronised since opening, and they have been an absolute god-send since March.

Since those PubCo operations closed as pubs, four micropubs have opened within the same walking radius. They're all locally and independently owned and all have grown steadily into apparently strong businesses (and three of them remain open in Tier Three for pre-order takeaway right now).

I admit, therefore, that I actually far prefer having two reliable and convenient shops, and four independent micropubs, than the previous two PubCo pubs. Purely anecdotally and reportedly, there was often 'bother' at those old pubs, whereas I've not seen or heard a peep of trouble from the micros. If that's actually the case, then I can imagine that the council, Police and Casualty are probably also quite keen on the way things have changed, too.

 

[Dai Corner]

That for me is the real danger. Far too many good pubs have been deconsecrated & sold off for housing before the current crisis I wonder how many will be left when it's over. I'm sure many large pub chains are already looking at their estate & their high debt burdens & wondering what can be sold off to developers for a quick profit. Perhaps the only way to protect the future of our pubs would be a change in planning laws to prohibit change of use.

I'd say the best way to protect the future of our pubs is to use them as much as we can.