Competition 320 :: Voting

[dan_atki]

I dont think anyone has claimed editing is "cheating", more that it is probably not within the spirit of this competition.

I do agree with the two competitions suggestion though.

Indeed, a recurring suggestion that goes through this thread.

From an administration viewpoint there are difficulties with having two separate competitions and that's why it's not as simple as saying 'you want two competitions, have two competitions'. It needs to be thought about and made workable and Jordy has said an announcement will be made in due course.

No matter how many 'we need two competitions' style postings there are in this thread, the thought process will not speed up. We hear you, so if your only suggestion is 'we need two competitions', please don't make this thread any more off-topic than it already is - we're meant to be discussing the entries of 320 here, not mass suggesting how to improve the competition.


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Congrats this week go to curly42

01 - generalvegitable
02 - D9521
03 - Dobbzy
04 - curly42
05 - ladysue
06 - GB
07 - mumrar
08 - steve 46010

 

[generalvegitable]

well my result was better than it usually is

 

[Swiss Toni]

True genius and pro photographers will move position to capture a photograph rather than edit things out of the image that were in way.

How do you know?

Murmars' photograph just shows what can be achieved when you think about the capture in the first place, good location, good composition, right conditions and minimal processing after.

That's funny it was called "unnatural and too much like a painting", and a "chocolate box picture" before the details were known.

 

[Phoenix]

Just a small point, enter any "Photo" competition where a prize is to be won then edited photographs are not allowed. The competition ceases to be a photography competition when editing, apart from RAW processing, is entered into the mix.
True genius and pro photographers will move position to capture a photograph rather than edit things out of the image that were in way.
Maybe we should have a "Picture of the week" competition to run along side the main competition with the same theme but allowing the editors to show off their skills. Murmars' photograph just shows what can be achieved when you think about the capture in the first place, good location, good composition, right conditions and minimal processing after.

You cannot in any way shape or form bring genius or Pro into this argument as an individual doesn't have a say in that matter it is the general consesus that decides what is and isn't genius.
Plus have you thought this one through as it seems you have the conception that all we do is run out our cars take a shot and hope we can edit the crap out of the shot so it looks nice we do actually care about photography you know.

As for Mumrar he does use editing but in the correct manner like the rest of us and rather than CHEATING it is called ENHANCEMENT.

I have no problem with the fact some people do not feel like editing is the way forward but I urge people mainly on this forum to actually read up on the subject and cut the ignorance as a few of us don't like being told what to do by groups of people who don't even take time to read upon a subject before begging to control it.

My final statement on the matter is that I feel that a choice of both editing and non editing competitions would not only cease this argument (and no amount of moderation will) it will improve the photographic discussion on this forum as the majority of people who post photos do not really get a look in because they are either not newsworthy or not a a class 47 pulling a hst which is on fire and I honestly feel if this forum opens its mind up to photography a little more than it will defiantly improve it's popularity ten fold.

 

[andrewmay]

Couldnt agree more Swiss Toni & Pheonix.

I want to know why the ban on editing was put in place to alienate us who edit before any kind of seperate competition was set up. All it's done is made me head elsewhere. I wonder where elswhere could be...

Anyone heard this supposed announcement yet? Maybe it's preceded by a Mk3 style bing bong.

 

[Richmond]

How do you know?

That's funny it was called "unnatural and too much like a painting", and a "chocolate box picture" before the details were known.

As someone who makes a living with a camera and knows how important workload constraints are, it is vital you take the time to compose the shot in the first instance, with editing only used when you have no other way to get the shot then take it from a pro, editing is the last thing you have on your mind when you take that shot, you take the time at source rather than use vital time in front of the computer.

As for the chocolate box effect, I sent a PM to Murmar stating that people would be surprised to see how little editing he did on the shot before he revealed it was just enhancements.

Phoenix, the worlds leading photographers think about their shots before they take them, you may need to do more reading about the true greats in the world of photography, as composition is a key element which requires you to work with your surroundings and get the best out of them. In my world enhancements are great but removing elements is a no go, push your camera to the limits not the software or are you not quite so serious about photography as you say you are? I know I am.

 

[dan_atki]

I want to know why the ban on editing was put in place to alienate us who edit before any kind of seperate competition was set up. All it's done is made me head elsewhere. I wonder where elswhere could be...

Please read the thread from 3 months ago linked to above if you want to know. The competition took a sudden, unexpected turn at the start of this year and suddenly became more serious. People didn't like a whole load of OHLE removed from a shot so we had to think how to improve the competition...

Based on what was allowed in other photography competitions that decision was taken. I wonder how many PMs Jordy has received between 306 and 320 regarding the rule change and a separate competition. Not many I bet, if any.

As I have also said, there are technical problems with having two competitions run side-by-side and it is still being decided if that is ultimately the best thing for the competition, it may create an unwanted divide between entrants. As mumrar has said above, it's the different abilities of people who enter that adds to the appeal of the competition.

Anyone heard this supposed announcement yet? Maybe it's preceded by a Mk3 style bing bong.

As we've said, things are being thought about and then there will be an announcement with time. Please be patient - it will come. I can't say for sure when, but it will.

 

[Swiss Toni]

As someone who makes a living with a camera and knows how important workload constraints are, it is vital you take the time to compose the shot in the first instance, with editing only used when you have no other way to get the shot

Composition has nothing to do with processing and processing has nothing to do with removal or cloning.
To suggest that some of us don't compose shots initially is frankly insulting and would appear to suggest that you haven't looked at our websites.

and this is the most patronising comment I've read in ages,

Phoenix, the worlds leading photographers think about their shots before they take them, you may need to do more reading about the true greats in the world of photography,

Can I ask what you shoot "professionally" and do you have a website of your non rail work.

Two quotes from a Canon instruction manual.

RAW FILES
"The RAW image is the data output by the image sensor and converted to digital data which is recorded on the CF card as is.
The RAW image is converted to a personal computer where software (provided) is used to adjust the image as needed".

COLOUR SPACE
"Since the image will look very subdued with sRGB, post processing of the image with software will be required".

 

[curly42]

My my the things you learn from these postings never begins to amaze me !!
Anyway,something of a pyrrhic victory this week I feel,after the debacle of the withdrawn picture - but thanks to those who voted for the photograph.I can remember the trip very well,a two day visit to bash all the depots in Devon and Cornwall - in a Standard 8 (and that's a very old motor),no motorways,hardly any by-passes but shedloads of engines.Glory days.

 

[mumrar]

Just because editing is not in the forefront of your mind when taking a shot, doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. Professional work in magazines is one of the heaviest examples of post processing you will see. I also make a living with my camera, although I'm not sure why it's relevant to the discussion. If the insinuation is I take a shot for the benefit of what editing I can do that's truly laughable. I compose a shot, like a pro as you seem to 'instruct' us to do, and will deal with anything else later on. Please feel free to drop any more gems of wonder information from your high horse for us mere mortals to feed from while standing in your shadow.

 

[mumrar]

Phoenix, I can see that you are getting wound up by this whole thing, but I think there is confusion around the word professional. The definition is someone who makes the majority of their living undertaking something. It is by no means a mark of the quality of that work carried out by either, professional, amateur or novice. You fall under the serious amateur heading, as do I, as the majority of my money still comes in from non-photography work. I'm just posting this for you to realise that when Richmond referred to non professionals, it was not a slight on the quality of photos, but a fact insofar as a professional is concerned about their photos in another way, in that they have to produce the goods for either payment, references and future repeat business. I hope this helps clarify it for everyone, whilst I see that 'easy' is rightly defending Richmonds claim to be a professional I hope this doesn't require mod intervention.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, I can see that you are getting wound up by this whole thing, but I think there is confusion around the word professional. The definition is someone who makes the majority of their living undertaking something. It is by no means a mark of the quality of that work carried out by either, professional, amateur or novice. You fall under the serious amateur heading, as do I, as the majority of my money still comes in from non-photography work. I'm just posting this for you to realise that when Richmond referred to non professionals, it was not a slight on the quality of photos, but a fact insofar as a professional is concerned about their photos in another way, in that they have to produce the goods for either payment, references and future repeat business. I hope this helps clarify it for everyone, whilst I see that 'easy' is rightly defending Richmonds claim to be a professional I hope this doesn't require mod intervention.

Thank you for the clarification on the subject as in your post you clearly recognize the effort I put into my photography which I feel Richmond has failed to do so which is disappointing for any photographer as all we ask for is some recognition of our efforts by others.
I will stop posting towards Richmond comments now as I am getting wound up by it all and it may just lead to a pointless argument but as said before I will not apologize but simply leave it be.

 

[dan_atki]

Enough has been made of this subject now. There is no need to personally attack people.

Now the thread has been locked and all offensive postings deleted, hopefully people will calm down. If so, no more will be made of the posts here.