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Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

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Stan Drews

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Normal tatic they have. Lose 142 to Arriva, register commercial journeys, lose 412 to Eddie Brown, register commercial journeys, get told NYCC is stopping to fund Harrogate local routes, register two of them commercially.

In other words, they're more than happy to take the taxpayers money as long as they have the tender contract. However, should they lose out to another operator through the normal retendering process, they suddenly become commercially viable.
Unfortunately, not something that portrays the industry in a very good light.
 
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SCH117X

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In other words, they're more than happy to take the taxpayers money as long as they have the tender contract. However, should they lose out to another operator through the normal retendering process, they suddenly become commercially viable.
Unfortunately, not something that portrays the industry in a very good light.

Does also raise issues as to how accurately they are reporting loadings to the relevant authority as the authorities should have realised the service was commercially viable. Ilkley locals, when I have seen them, look far fuller than most of their commercially operated services in Harrogate.
 

ChrisPJ

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It's great if they can genuinely turn a supported route into a profitable one. But we've seen this all before with expansionist independents living beyond their means, the bigger they get, the messier the eventual collapse
 

SCH117X

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not something that portrays the industry in a very good light.
Like their tweets such as Thursdays
connexionsbuses ‏@connexionsbuses · Sep 8

The original company doing what they do best! Now imitated by l'autobus compagnie de Francais


trentbarton land
‏@trentbartonland
Morning! John & Ben are out at Ripley with some free breakfast boxes, come and say hello!
 

the101

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In other words, they're more than happy to take the taxpayers money as long as they have the tender contract. However, should they lose out to another operator through the normal retendering process, they suddenly become commercially viable.
Unfortunately, not something that portrays the industry in a very good light.
Indeed. Another company that did this recently was GHA.

Whoever is responsible for the Twitter account at Connexions needs to grow up and get a grip. Some of their posts concerning Transdev are akin to those of a spoiled child.
 

tbone

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The latest is that Rhys Hand of CityFox fame, and similarly unprofessional with his Twitter comments, is to work for Connexions.

Rhys works with Phil Stockley at CityFox, who was due to go Transdev but then he wasn't, there's clearly something going on behind the scenes and it seems to be motivated by personal issues rather than improving public transport...
 

Robertj21a

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The latest is that Rhys Hand of CityFox fame, and similarly unprofessional with his Twitter comments, is to work for Connexions.

Rhys works with Phil Stockley at CityFox, who was due to go Transdev but then he wasn't, there's clearly something going on behind the scenes and it seems to be motivated by personal issues rather than improving public transport...

Agreed, all very odd. I'm very surprised at Phil getting so involved, there must be more in all this.
 

PhilStockley

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On the contrary.

I'm a huge fan of Alex and everything he and his team have achieved at Transdev. My decision not to go there was all about my personal circumstances at the time and no reflection on Alex or his organisation. They are great people doing amazing things and long may it continue.

I'm also a fan of a thriving independent sector as is well documented, and I see no problem and indeed I see it as good for the industry for both companies to be able to coexist in the same market. I have said this to both Alex and Craig privately on various occasions.

I'm not a fan of companies using corporate outlets to attack others. To the extent that a relationship develops between CityFox and Connexions, I'm sure it will be driven by a desire to support Connexions in maximising and promoting their strengths and engaging in a positive way with customers, and hopefully moving away from the adversarial nature of some of their present communications.

Worth noting that I am also involved with FindMyBus and Mobile Onboard, both of whom have happily supplied Connexions for a long time now without it having been a cause of drama, and indeed more recently FindMyBus has also become a partner with Transdev, so it is perfectly possible for all the various parties to coexist and do their thing on a business level without it having any personal motives. And that is very much the case here.

Hope that helps!
 

SCH117X

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Look forward to useful sensible tweets on the Connexions buses twitter account; maybe Craig should get a twitter account in his own name so that he can carry on slagging Transdev off without confusing his passengers who wonder what on earth delays on the 36 have to do with them and meanwhile wondering why no twitter messages have been given out re the delays on the services they want to use.
 
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Tetchytyke

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Indeed. Another company that did this recently was GHA.

Pfft, Stagecoach have done it repeatedly up here with some of the marginal routes round the outskirts of Newcastle. They say it isn't viable, Nexus tender it out, Stagecoach lose the tender, Stagecoach decide it is viable after all, Nexus have lost the money they spent on the tender but save the support money.

Arriva had the same tactic in County Durham for a while too.

It doesn't look good, but it doesn't mean it is desperation or that they're about to go to the wall. They might be, but it won't be because of this.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Pfft, Stagecoach have done it repeatedly up here with some of the marginal routes round the outskirts of Newcastle. They say it isn't viable, Nexus tender it out, Stagecoach lose the tender, Stagecoach decide it is viable after all, Nexus have lost the money they spent on the tender but save the support money.

Arriva had the same tactic in County Durham for a while too.

It doesn't look good, but it doesn't mean it is desperation or that they're about to go to the wall. They might be, but it won't be because of this.

To be fair, this sort of selective registration has gone on since the start of deregulation. Darlington Transport won some North Yorkshire tenders in 1988 (28 years ago) on the Richmond to Catterick Village service and the main Darlington - Richmond - Catterick Garrison service.

United then decided that they would register the Catterick Village service (excluding the evening journeys), and the main route on Thurs/Fri/Sat evenings. The latter situation of sharing the route lasted until Darlington Transport went pop.

I know it's easy to say "boo hiss, they've been ripping us off" but often, these are marginal services that if the full cost of operation is placed against them, they're not viable. Instead, they register them as a protectionist measure to protect their business.

Perhaps the sharpest example of not doing so was North Devon where by allowing Stagecoach to have a bridgehead of tendered work, First then allowed their decent work to be eroded!
 

SCH117X

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The joint running of tendered/commercial services seems to be on the basis of the tendered service operator having to accept return tickets issued by the commercial operator, but the commercial operator not accepting returns issued by the tendered operator.
 

Volvodart

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http://www.route-one.net/articles/Marketing/CityFox_in_tie-up_with_Connexions

CityFox in tie-up with Connexions
By Mel Holley
Bristol-based CityFox Group has signed a marketing agreement with Yorkshire-based independent Connexions Buses.

CityFox will take over the production of publicity and marketing material and will also manage the operator’s social media channels.

Says Connexions MD Craig Temple: “This agreement will allow us to concentrate on the successful operation of our growing network of services around North and West Yorkshire, while bringing new flair and imagination to our customer communications.”

CityFox Group MD Rhys Hand adds: “We are delighted to be working with Connexions on this innovative new agreement and hope to be able to work with other operators in the future, adding value to their marketing while ensuring they are not distracted from the challenging task of running reliable services day in, day out.”
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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Manage their social media.... Someone needs to manage Rhys Hand's social media. Latest gems....

(to Uber) - "your (sic) a bunch of thieving scum. Get your drivers in Bristol to pass the proper tests!"

(to Phil Stockley about Simon Ford of First) - "they don't have employ some special people"

(to Argos online) - "thanks for talking rubbish about delivering my parcel when you said you would"

Hardly the mature approach you'd expect from a captain of industry
 

Tetchytyke

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Someone needs to manage Rhys Hand's social media. Latest gems....

Thanks for the hat-tip, that's given me a laugh.

To be fair, this sort of selective registration has gone on since the start of deregulation.

Yeah, totally, which was my point. It's not (necessarily) a sign of desperation, although obviously small companies will struggle to accommodate a marginal route more than a big company would. It's often a sign of protecting a patch, something that Arriva Durham County learned the hard way when they let Jayline/Go North East take all the tendered work in the Durham coalfield.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Yeah, totally, which was my point. It's not (necessarily) a sign of desperation, although obviously small companies will struggle to accommodate a marginal route more than a big company would. It's often a sign of protecting a patch, something that Arriva Durham County learned the hard way when they let Jayline/Go North East take all the tendered work in the Durham coalfield.

Arriva were comprehensively outmanoeuvred by Go Ahead and Huntley!!

This area isn't, of course, the preserve of large businesses.

It may be that it was tendered with a large firm (who have inherently higher costs or margin requirements) and lost on tender to a indie whose cost base is lower. After operating it for a bit, they may realise that it might be commercial (albeit marginal) so they decide to keep the tender going (because you would) and wait to see if they pick it up on retender. If not, they can always register it commercially.

We've also seen plenty of instances where tenders are being withdrawn by councils and they're being kept on commercially. Some of those are undoubtedly non commercial (early evening) but businesses take the wider view as the marginal cost is relatively low.
 

SCH117X

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VOSA registrations today makes things a little clearer


923 Otley-Wetherby-Tadcaster. Cancelled by Connexions, registered by Transdev. X70 extension registered by Connexions from Wetherby to Tadcaster

940 Holt Park – Pool – Otley – Wharfedale Hospital. Timetable change by Connexions, registered by Transdev

960 Ilkley circular via Booths and Ben Ryhdding. Cancelled by Connexions
961 Ilkley circular via Queens Road and Hebers Ghyll Cancelled by Connexions
962 Otley – Ilkley. Cancelled by Connexions registered by Transdev
964 Otley circular via Cambridge estate. Cancelled by Connexions

X1C Harrogate-Nidderdale Lodge Knaresborough registered by Connexions. This is obviously another attack on Transdevs route 1 services between the two towns but oddly numbered (although VOSA is not always right in that respect). Nidderdale Lodge is to the east of Knaresbrough formerly served by the infrequent 57 before Transdev rerouted the service as part of the 1A extensions to Boroughbridge. Transdevs 1C serves the housing estates to the northern parts of Knaresborough.

Interesting Connexions have tweeted today they will not setting up new service in Leeds as they work well with the existing operators. (However in Harrogate...)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
964 now registered by Transdev together with a 963 (last such numbered service withdrawn in 2014), 965 (currently First Otley-Weston circular), 966 (TLC Guiseley-Yeadon), 967 (TLC Leeds Bradford Airport-Otley-Weston).

Understand the 940 is going to be Otley-Holt Park with Transdev Mon-Fri Peaks, Connexions Mon-Fri off peak and Saturdays. The 963 is the Otley town part of the 940 (presumably Otley-Whafedale Hospital). The 965 operation by Transdev will be the workings not operated commercially by First.

Further update, also understand that in Ilkley the 960 and 961 are to merged somehow into 962 hence explaining the lack of registration of those by Transev.
 
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SCH117X

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Apparently Connexions have dropped their tendered service duplication plan, which would have been I understand the 962; meanwhile NYCC have published some info which indicates the X1c will be half hourly and the X70 extension to Tadcaster hourly, both Mon-Sat daytimes only as is usual for Connexions.
 
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Deerfold

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Apparently Connexions have dropped their tendered service duplication plan, which would have been I understand the 962; meanwhile NYCC have published some info which indicates the X1c will be half hourly and the X70 extension to Tadcaster hourly, both Mon-Sat daytimes only as is usual for Connexions.

Shocked by their answer to my tweet about it.

https://twitter.com/connexionsbus/status/779792857733402625?s=09

They say they only registered it for a laugh. When does their contacted out twitter management start?
 

Deerfold

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You do realise that last tweet is from a parody account? Seems to have a familiar style to the tweets though....

I hadn't.

Whilst it's obvious from their profile, from 1 tweet they're very similar.

And just about believable.

What an odd going for someone to do.
 

SCH117X

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I see Connexions went to Showbus in a new heritage repaint yesterday, M393VWX in its former Harrogate & District route 36 branded livery! Perfectly authentic, and made me chuckle.
https://twitter.com/connexionsbuses

Amazing how they can come up with that in a week or so while normal service vehicles are running round, and have been doing so for months, in plain white, blue and white, red; any colour other than green and white
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
When do the X70 from Tad to Harrogate start?
Nov 7

The repainted Strider, if you compare it with a photo of it when in service with H&D has a number of differences; the fleetnames are too narrow, the side desti should not be opaque and the 36 logos on the sides are one window pillar too far forward - posibly expains the lack of lettering as it will not fit properly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Appears that its Wetherby to Tadcaster where Connexions are now starting a partial war with Metro funded Transdev operated service in the am peak

Tadcaster dep 0720 Transdev 923 via Thorpe Arch terminating at Wetherby
0720 Connexions X70 not via Thorpe Arch and terminating at Wetherby

Tadcaster dep 0814 Transdev 923 via Thorpe Arch continuing to Scarcroft
0814 Connexions X70 not via Thorpe Arch and terminating at Wetherby

Wetherby dep 0750 Transdev 923 & Connexions X70 Both not via Thorpe Arch
 
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SCH117X

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Seems that the professional aspect to Connexions tweets has still to occur

Oct 25 : We are so sorry to have been undercut in the tender process by l'autobus compagnie Francais de keighley.

And not sure what to make of Oct 17: Personal best today! 2 mot passes in a day for two of our fleet.....

Presumably they normally fail.
 

the101

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Seems that the professional aspect to Connexions tweets has still to occur

Oct 25 : We are so sorry to have been undercut in the tender process by l'autobus compagnie Francais de keighley.
It's embarrassing.

Sadly Connexions seems to be one of the several independent operators that will quite happily undercut or register in front of the incumbent when it suits them to do so, but when the favour is returned, it suddenly become an unacceptable business practice.

That said, Transdev's operating costs must be higher as it buys new rather than relying on mainly cast-off kit from elsewhere. Maybe Connexions need to sharpen up the pencil.
 

robertclark125

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An alternative view may be, Transdev realise that their passengers, or potential passengers, demand modern public transport, hence they buy new, as they can afford to. Whatever, The101 is right, there are independent operators who quite happily duplicate a route belonging to a big company, and undercut them, but who complain to the CMA, or its predecessor the OFT, when a big company does it to them.

That said, there are passengers who think that it's fine for a small firm to compete with a big firm, but not the other way round. That's been the case before here in Fife, where folk in Glenrothes thought it was fine for Moffat and Williamson to try and force Stagecoach off the road, but wasn't ok for Stagecoach to compete with M&W.

Lesson for all operators, big and small - competition works both ways. Passengers take note as well.
 

SCH117X

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Transdev Blazefields new vehicles this year have seen a large number of owned vehicles displaced - the Wharfedale services are going to use 12 year old Darts at negligible cost to them compared to having order/lease vehicles.

Its interesting to note the amount (or lack) of passengers on Connexions morning peak services from Knaresborough to Harrogate; regular passengers using Transdev period/season tickets that allow them to use the bus during evenings and Sundays as well when the competition ceases to operate - a Volvo Estate would typically be more than ample! There is an issue with air quality at a junction in Knaresborough and the funding has been received by Transdev in association with the local council to fit their vehicles on the route with reduced emission equipment so Connexions increasing shortly their vehicles through that junction to 12 a hour is, I would imagine, hardly going to popular with environmental health officers.
 
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ChathillMan

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If you want to see how bitter a smaller operator can be, take a look at Spirit Bus in Rothbury.

They have found a way to blame ARRIVA for them having to shut down despite not competing on any routes with the blue brand.

The fact they lost a competitive tender to ARRIVA (Arriva would have lost work if they didn't bid) and Spirit have a flawed business model has nothing to do with it of course.



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