Competition heats up between Transdev and Connexions

[Stan Drews]

When did AH start? This was 2014ish. But you're right though, I think it was more of a local issue trying to save face and disguise the fact they messed the route up.

He took up his initial post in Feb 2015.
I don’t think the Hyndburn circulars have changed very much at all in that time, other than the fleet of new buses ...but don’t tell those who think they never invest in Blackburn!

 

[RustySpoons]

He took up his initial post in Feb 2015.
I don’t think the Hyndburn circulars have changed very much at all in that time, other than the fleet of new buses ...but don’t tell those who think they never invest in Blackburn!

Ha ha! I know exactly who you're referring to!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

When did AH start? This was 2014ish. But you're right though, I think it was more of a local issue trying to save face and disguise the fact they messed the route up.

Feb 2015 apparently

 

[Andyh82]

You’re going all the way back to the ‘Spot On’ era when they ran the Hyndburn circular via Shadsworth. It was also before the new Blackburn bus station opened.

 

[RustySpoons]

You’re going all the way back to the ‘Spot On’ era when they ran the Hyndburn circular via Shadsworth. It was also before the new Blackburn bus station opened.

Was that not just alternate journeys in the Spot On era? Looking at pictures it was 2013-2014 when Pilkingtons exclusively ran the 'original' Hyndburn Circular. I thought Spot On was long gone by then?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'll admit I'm not too clued up on the whole Preston Bus/Stagecoach saga, I'd always assumed it was just because they'd have the monopoly of most services, rather than the competing routes.

Stagecoach were predatory in Preston, running duplicates using a fleet of Solos and dirt cheap fares to force Preston Bus off the road. Optare, by all accounts, had let slip some of what they were planning and Stagecoach refused to buy from them after that.

The CC ruled that, not only did Stagecoach have to sell Preston Bus, they also couldn't raise fares from the loss-leader level they were at.

This was all so Stagecoach could drive down the purchase price. Pretty despicable, as always from Uncle Brian. Up there with Darlington. As I said, shows how toothless the CC were/are.

Rosso, on the other hand, were actively pursuing a buyer and Transdev paid a fair market price without trying to run them off the road or use aggressive competition to manipulate the price downwards.

 

[GusB]

AH? Please explain.

 

[RustySpoons]

Stagecoach were predatory in Preston, running duplicates using a fleet of Solos and dirt cheap fares to force Preston Bus off the road. Optare, by all accounts, had let slip some of what they were planning and Stagecoach refused to buy from them after that.

The CC ruled that, not only did Stagecoach have to sell Preston Bus, they also couldn't raise fares from the loss-leader level they were at.

This was all so Stagecoach could drive down the purchase price. Pretty despicable, as always from Uncle Brian. Up there with Darlington. As I said, shows how toothless the CC were/are.

Rosso, on the other hand, were actively pursuing a buyer and Transdev paid a fair market price without trying to run them off the road or use aggressive competition to manipulate the price downwards.

Good info, wasn't aware of the story leading up to the sale of Preston Bus, cheers sir.

AH? Please explain.

AH - Alex Hornby, current Transdev Blazefield CEO.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This was all so Stagecoach could drive down the purchase price. Pretty despicable, as always from Uncle Brian. Up there with Darlington. As I said, shows how toothless the CC were/are.

Surely the fact that Stagecoach were forced to divest illustrates that they weren't toothless? Darlington is always cited but TBH, the damage was long done by that point. A more relevant example would be Lancaster CT. The council had shown a willingness to sell. Stagecoach began competing and in the end, Lancaster sold out but at rock bottom terms (i.e. asset value for some of the more modern fleet of Atlanteans, and the depot in Morecambe). It all came back on Stagecoach in the end when their behaviour undoubtedly influenced the Monopolies and Mergers Commission when they were forced to divest their interests in both Mainline and Strathclyde.

In that respect, the purchase of Rosso was much better for the taxpayers, and the CC do now take a more holistic view on the subject of purchases with Arriva being able to buy Stagecoach's Darlington and Go-Ahead's former OK operations that gave them much of SW Durham to themselves at the time.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Surely the fact that Stagecoach were forced to divest illustrates that they weren't toothless? Darlington is always cited but TBH, the damage was long done by that point. A more relevant example would be Lancaster CT. The council had shown a willingness to sell. Stagecoach began competing and in the end, Lancaster sold out but at rock bottom terms

Yes, that is a better example, and one I wasn't aware of. The fact Stagecoach had to sell- and only to a company capable of competing- was positive. Though there was no real penalty for their behaviour- they got to sell it, and the original owners of Preston Bus were still robbed of their company

In that respect, the purchase of Rosso was much better for the taxpayers, and the CC do now take a more holistic view on the subject of purchases

Definitely. Transdev entered into it in good faith. That is really what you want.

 

[M60lad]

Another thing with Transdev is the fact that they like cutting routes, for instance Blackburn when it was Blackburn Borough Transport used to have quite a good route network from and to Blackburn that used to run out to various places and I know that there was quite a number of routes to/from Darwen via various points in the past none of these routes exist anymore also you cant get from Darwen straight to Royal Bolton Hospital anymore as far as I know without having to go into Blackburn and changing buses.

Another thing is that they like messing about with routes changing them then changing them back to an original route, only recently they've done this with 24 Burnley-Chorley service, once over it ran via Mill Hill and Leyburn and now its back running the straight route via Feniscowles.

I remember a friend of mine back in the day when he first found out Transdev had bought Blackburn Borough Transport saying it would be bad for the people for Blackburn due to reasons I've said above about service cuts and unfortunatly he was right.

 

[cnjb8]

Another thing with Transdev is the fact that they like cutting routes, for instance Blackburn when it was Blackburn Borough Transport used to have quite a good route network from and to Blackburn that used to run out to various places and I know that there was quite a number of routes to/from Darwen via various points in the past none of these routes exist anymore also you cant get from Darwen straight to Royal Bolton Hospital anymore as far as I know without having to go into Blackburn and changing buses.

Another thing is that they like messing about with routes changing them then changing them back to an original route, only recently they've done this with 24 Burnley-Chorley service, once over it ran via Mill Hill and Leyburn and now its back running the straight route via Feniscowles.

I remember a friend of mine back in the day when he first found out Transdev had bought Blackburn Borough Transport saying it would be bad for the people for Blackburn due to reasons I've said above about service cuts and unfortunatly he was right.

They like doing that? I'm not so sure. If a route is withdrawn, it's because it is no longer profitable or for fleet replacement. Which bus companies are not withdrawing routes?

 

[RustySpoons]

Another thing with Transdev is the fact that they like cutting routes, for instance Blackburn when it was Blackburn Borough Transport used to have quite a good route network from and to Blackburn that used to run out to various places and I know that there was quite a number of routes to/from Darwen via various points in the past none of these routes exist anymore also you cant get from Darwen straight to Royal Bolton Hospital anymore as far as I know without having to go into Blackburn and changing buses.

To be fair most, if not all, of those were tendered routes so not entirely the fault of Transdev if the funding/passengers weren't there.

The one that makes little sense to me is the 'fast' link from Blackburn to Accrington omitting Oswaldtwistle. At one point there was Lancashire United, Blackburn Transport, M&M Coaches and Pilkingtons competing on that section, but once the competition had been bought/closed up shop/moved on they withdrew it. OK it may not have been a massive money earner for them, but it cut down journey times.

Of course another operator could rerun the service, but with the past experience with Transdev not being particularly fond of other companies filling in their gaps I can't blame them for not wanting to.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Another thing with Transdev is the fact that they like cutting routes, for instance Blackburn when it was Blackburn Borough Transport used to have quite a good route network from and to Blackburn that used to run out to various places and I know that there was quite a number of routes to/from Darwen via various points in the past none of these routes exist anymore also you cant get from Darwen straight to Royal Bolton Hospital anymore as far as I know without having to go into Blackburn and changing buses.

Another thing is that they like messing about with routes changing them then changing them back to an original route, only recently they've done this with 24 Burnley-Chorley service, once over it ran via Mill Hill and Leyburn and now its back running the straight route via Feniscowles.

I remember a friend of mine back in the day when he first found out Transdev had bought Blackburn Borough Transport saying it would be bad for the people for Blackburn due to reasons I've said above about service cuts and unfortunatly he was right.

Given how economically depressed Blackburn is, there's no surprise that routes have had to go. Also, got to remember that BBT was loss making and was making do with casting around for secondhand fleet. It was hardly a Lancashire Lothian

 

[CBlue]

Another thing with Transdev is the fact that they like cutting routes, for instance Blackburn when it was Blackburn Borough Transport used to have quite a good route network from and to Blackburn that used to run out to various places and I know that there was quite a number of routes to/from Darwen via various points in the past none of these routes exist anymore also you cant get from Darwen straight to Royal Bolton Hospital anymore as far as I know without having to go into Blackburn and changing buses.

Another thing is that they like messing about with routes changing them then changing them back to an original route, only recently they've done this with 24 Burnley-Chorley service, once over it ran via Mill Hill and Leyburn and now its back running the straight route via Feniscowles.

I remember a friend of mine back in the day when he first found out Transdev had bought Blackburn Borough Transport saying it would be bad for the people for Blackburn due to reasons I've said above about service cuts and unfortunatly he was right.

I'm not sure that's any different to most big group operators. At least Transdev seem to market their business and appear to do their best to make bus travel attractive and have done so for some time - take a look at somewhere like Suffolk. First did quite a good job of decimating most of their services around the county, although I imagine the vast majority of them weren't profitable.

 

[Andyh82]

I'm not sure that's any different to most big group operators. At least Transdev seem to market their business and appear to do their best to make bus travel attractive and have done so for some time - take a look at somewhere like Suffolk. First did quite a good job of decimating most of their services around the county, although I imagine the vast majority of them weren't profitable.

And with Blackburn you can’t deny that they made a good effort to market the Blackburn network, and refreshed it more than BBT did.

“Spot On” introduced new buses, rebranded buses, last metroriders etc replaced by low floor darts, high quality publicity, fares offers etc, and it obviously still didn’t work.

It’s quite stark that a route like Sunnybower went from every 20 mins, to every 30 mins, to hourly, and is now a tendered service running hourly weekdays only with school time gaps.

The back road bus to Darwen that was mentioned a few posts ago was picked up by Moving People, and they withdrew it as well. I believe it exists just within Darwen now run by a minibus.

 

[SCH117X]

No different to Transdev using vehicles on School Services in Harrogate, still in the livery of its sister companies, without taking off the vinyls.
We have voted to leave the EU so the more Union Flags the better! Nothing wrong with patriotism.

Except Connexions white vehicles are regular on the normal services whereas the MyBus vehicles are only used on school service and none of the fleet are in sister companies liveries.

 

[Swimbar]

Except Connexions white vehicles are regular on the normal services whereas the MyBus vehicles are only used on school service and none of the fleet are in sister companies liveries.

There might not he any now but they certainly did have some ex Lancashire vehicles on school services.

 

[SCH117X]

There might not he any now but they certainly did have some ex Lancashire vehicles on school services.

But not used on scheduled services. Smiley needed of head hitting brick wall.

 

[SCH117X]

Looks like squabbles will start next week - new temporary timetables from both have services to Wetherby by both departing from the same stand at Harrogate Bus Station at 0830,0930,1030,1130 Monday-Friday ; those Transdev 7s only running as far as Wetherby while apart from the 0830 Connexions working the rest do at least take the route via Follifoot.