Complicated Rail and Sail question

[ajdunlop]

I want to travel from Southampton to Belfast on a Rail and Sail ticket.
I want to do this by going to London and taking the sleeper (seated) to Scotland to then get a ferry from Stranraer to Belfast.

Now here comes the complicated bit...
If I do it the recommended way I would go to Glasgow to then get a train to Stranraer.
However I have found that if I were to get off at Carlisle I can get a train to Dumfries and a bus from there to Stranraer in time for a much earlier ferry crossing.
Obviously if I just book the train as far as Dumfries I don't get the Rail and Sail discount.
So my question is, is there anything stopping me booking the rail and sail as if I am going via Glasgow and getting the later sailing but actually get off at Carlisle and onto a train to Dumfries and take the bus (obviously I would have to pay for this train and bus separately).

The issues I see are:
Am I allowed to exit the network early? (as far as I understand the rail part of the ticket allows me to take any reasonable trains between Soton and Stranraer so for all they know I could be taking a train via Dumfries to Stranrear.
And would I be alowed to board an earlier ferry than my reservation?

 

[Max]

This is rather complicated! From what you've said, I can't see this being an issue. What kind of ticket were you wishing to purchase to Belfast? There is an Anytime Return route Stranrear priced at £98 full fare which, as far as I'm aware, would allow you to travel by any train and any ferry. According to National Rail:

Anytime Singles and the outward part of Anytime Return tickets are valid for travel on any train on the date shown on your ticket. Break of journey for an overnight stay is allowed. Where a journey continues into the next day, travel must resume before 1200 and no further break of journey is allowed except to change trains.

Therefore there is nothing wrong with you going for an early ferry the next day, as you could have reasonably travelled via Glasgow, breaking your journey in Glasgow or in Stranrear to continue the next day. There is no way of them knowing on the ferry which route you took.

 

[John @ home]

Am I allowed to exit the network early?

You might be OK with this route. The NFM 02 disk gives:

From SOUTHAMPTON CTL
To BELFAST NI
Route +STRANRAER STENA
FOR £270.00 No Restriction Applies
FDS £135.00 No Restriction Applies
SOR £98.00 No Restriction Applies
SDS £49.00 No Restriction Applies
FDS £43.00 Advance Single. No Restriction Text.

This would suggest you may be allowed to break your journey in Dumfries, as long as you were not using an Advance Single.

In contrast, the restrictions for the other routes are quite specific:

From SOUTHAMPTON CTL
To BELFAST NI
Route +HOLYHEAD STENA CIV
ECR £82.00 Economy Return. Break of Journey: NO
ECS £41.00 Economy Single. Break of Journey: NO


From SOUTHAMPTON CTL
To BELFAST NI
Route +HOLYHEAD IRISHF CIV
ECR £82.00 Economy Return. Break of Journey: NO
ECS £41.00 Economy Single. Break of Journey: NO

And would I be alowed to board an earlier ferry than my reservation?

Sorry, don't know. If no-one on this forum knows, I suggest you ask Stena.

John

 

[glynn80]

And would I be alowed to board an earlier ferry than my reservation?

No you would not, however you can obtain another reservation from a ticket office for an earlier departure if you have enough time to do so.

 

[ajdunlop]

You might be OK with this route. The NFM 02 disk gives:

From SOUTHAMPTON CTL
To BELFAST NI
Route +STRANRAER STENA
FOR £270.00 No Restriction Applies
FDS £135.00 No Restriction Applies
SOR £98.00 No Restriction Applies
SDS £49.00 No Restriction Applies
FDS £43.00 Advance Single. No Restriction Text.

This would suggest you may be allowed to break your journey in Dumfries, as long as you were not using an Advance Single.

Thanks John for the reply. I didn't know there were different Rail and Sail tickets. I thought they all were advanced.
On the SailRail website http://www.sailrail.co.uk/ when I put in my selection for Southampton Ctl to Belfast via Stranraer the options are: Std. Class Single £49.50, 1st Class Single £140.50 or Apex Single £48.00. I assume as long as I don't go for the APEX I will not be restricted to certain trains?
Any idea why these prices are different? I assume APEX equates to the Advanced Single?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No you would not, however you can obtain another reservation from a ticket office for an earlier departure if you have enough time to do so.

Thanks Glynn.
When I did rail and sail via Holyhead last year they looked at my rail and sail ticket and then asked me for details they required before letting me board and gave me one of their boarding cards.
Would it just be a matter of doing this again and if they are not full they will give me a boarding card and enter me in the computer for the earlier ferry( a 5 min job)? Or would this require me to arrive at least a couple of hours before to change the reservation like with train reservations?

 

[metrocammel]

And would I be alowed to board an earlier ferry than my reservation?

In my experiences at Stranraer, they do not actually check the 'Control Ticket' (the ferry reservation - which is sometimes not even issued with the ticket, depending on the issuing system), but rather they just take the actual ticket (they insist on taking the ticket, for 'auditing' purposes).

On the return, I made an enquiry at the desk about reservations (as I wasn't sure of my return date). The advise given was to simply turn up at the port about an hour before departure, to guarantee a space.

All in all, as long as you have your 'Stranraer Stena' ticket, and you are traveling at a generally quiet time (ie, not school holidays), you should be fine turning up and going.

However, if you want to be 100% certain of getting on the ferry, you can queue up at a ticket office and attempt to get a reservation (though, depending on the ticket office, and the clerks ability, you may be lucky to get a ferry 'control' reservation on it's own!)

 

[glynn80]

In my experiences at Stranraer, they do not actually check the 'Control Ticket' (the ferry reservation - which is sometimes not even issued with the ticket, depending on the issuing system), but rather they just take the actual ticket (they insist on taking the ticket, for 'auditing' purposes).

What if your ticket is issued to an onward destination in Northern Ireland??

 

[yorkie]

In reality you can get any ferry. In theory if there's a Glasgow derby (Celtic vs Rangers) match they may get full but otherwise it just doesn't happen.

They can fill up for vehicles, but they have a huge capacity for foot passengers and they don't seem to get anywhere near the limit.

 

[glynn80]

In reality you can get any ferry. In theory if there's a Glasgow vs Rangers match they may get full but otherwise it just doesn't happen.

They can fill up for vehicles, but they have a huge capacity for foot passengers and they don't seem to get anywhere near the limit.

Glasgow vs Rangers??

 

[yorkie]

Post edited accordingly.

 

[ajdunlop]

OK, I have phoned SailRail this evening and have it booked.
I had to opt for the £49 Anytime day single to be able to break my journey.
The woman on the phone said if there is room on the ferry it would be fine just be wise to phone Stena the day before to check there is so I don't end up spending hours in Stranraer rather than Glasgow where there is a bit more to do.

I think SailRail must have the best call centre people on the planet. They know about what they are selling, they can cope with you giving them complicated cases like mine and they obviously know how to find information on their computer system. I had a slightly unusual request for them before last year when I was travelling via Holyhead and got the same good service.

If I remember I will post my experiences although the trip isn't until April.

 

[metrocammel]

What if your ticket is issued to an onward destination in Northern Ireland??

I haven't tried that!

I guess though, using the 'reverse' method, they don't take anything from you if you have a ticket from Belfast to an British mainland destination- so if you had a ticket to an onward NI destination there is nothing really they can do.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

OK, I have phoned SailRail this evening and have it booked.
I had to opt for the £49 Anytime day single to be able to break my journey.
The woman on the phone said if there is room on the ferry it would be fine just be wise to phone Stena the day before to check there is so I don't end up spending hours in Stranraer rather than Glasgow where there is a bit more to do.

I think SailRail must have the best call centre people on the planet. They know about what they are selling, they can cope with you giving them complicated cases like mine and they obviously know how to find information on their computer system. I had a slightly unusual request for them before last year when I was travelling via Holyhead and got the same good service.

If I remember I will post my experiences although the trip isn't until April.

How are you getting back?

 

[yorkie]

I haven't tried that!

...ecause you don't get a railcard discount if you do So it's cheaper to re-book at Belfast.

 

[glynn80]

...ecause you don't get a railcard discount if you do So it's cheaper to re-book at Belfast.

Thats not actually true. You can book to Irish Zone 1 and still get the Railcard discount. FRPP states the following:

Railcard Discounts

Senior and Young Persons Railcards: Standard Discount (34%) is available on through tickets to/from Belfast and Irish Zone 1. Customers with other Railcards should book to the mainland UK port and re-book with the appropriate ferry company.

For Irish Zones 2, 3, 4 and 5 the amounts shown below must be added to the discounted Belfast fare.

Zone 2
SDS- 16.00

Zone 3
SDS- 26.00

Zone 4
SDS- 33.00

Zone 5
SDS- 39.00

Ticket types and validities, for journeys to and from Ireland

· FDS First Class Single
· FOR First Class Return (Double the FDS fare)
· SDS Standard Single
· SOR Standard Open Return (2 × SDS)
· AXS Apex Single

So you can buy your ticket to your onward destination in Ireland/Northern Ireland, either with the full Railcard discount or part Railcard discount.

 

[ajdunlop]

How are you getting back?

Flying

Hoping the Irish sea tunnel will be built soon!