Compulsory vs request stops on UK light rail systems

[AY1975]

Does anyone know which UK tram and light rail systems have all compulsory stops (i.e. all trams or trains calling at all stations or stops at all times whether anyone wants to get on or off there or not) and which systems have request stops (where you have to give a hand signal, or at least be clearly visible, at the stop if you wish to board and press the bell on board if you wish to alight)?

Even on systems that have request stops, in practice the trams usually do stop at most if not all of the main town or city centre stops.

AFAIK at present the situation is:

Blackpool: request stops

Docklands Light Railway: compulsory stops

Edinburgh: request stops

London Tramlink: request stops (I seem to recall that Croydon Tramlink, as it was originally known, had all compulsory stops when it first opened in 2000 but soon changed to request stops)

Manchester Metrolink: compulsory stops

Nottingham: request stops

Sheffield Supertram: request stops

Tyne & Wear Metro: compulsory stops

West Midlands Metro: compulsory stops

 

[Bourlea]

All Croydon Tramlink stops are compulsory unless instructed to non stop by control.

 

[AY1975]

All Croydon Tramlink stops are compulsory unless instructed to non stop by control.

According to the unofficial Tramlink website at https://www.croydon-tramlink.co.uk (which still exists even though it hasn't been updated since about 2007 when the webmaster unfortunately died) all stops on Tramlink are technically request stops and the trams have bell pushes (or at least the CR4000s do) but in practice they rarely skip stops, especially during the daytime.

Maybe I got it the wrong way round: maybe Tramlink changed from request stops to compulsory stops at some point?

 

[Bourlea]

Yes, they were all request stops but now are compulsory.

 

[mmh]

According to the unofficial Tramlink website at https://www.croydon-tramlink.co.uk (which still exists even though it hasn't been updated since about 2007 when the webmaster unfortunately died) all stops on Tramlink are technically request stops and the trams have bell pushes (or at least the CR4000s do) but in practice they rarely skip stops, especially during the daytime.

Maybe I got it the wrong way round: maybe Tramlink changed from request stops to compulsory stops at some point?

Yes, Tramlink changed from request to compulsory but stop buttons and stopping signs remained until trams were refurbished.

 

[WatcherZero]

Did the Queens Road staff halt count as a request stop? lol

 

[Starmill]

I've been told by the onboard staff at Edinburgh Trams that although the bells are fitted and do work, the stops are compulsory anyway. Interesting.

 

[edwin_m]

Because trams carry a lot of people and stops are more widely spaced, they are less likely to skip a request stop than buses are. This can actually be hazardous because people crossing the line may expect a tram to stop - obviously the driver should see them but they may be missed or their intentions may not be clear.

Fatal accident at Norbreck - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

The immediate cause of the accident was that the pedestrian stepped into the path of the tram, which was unable to stop in time to avoid the collision.

The causal factors which led to the accident were: the tram driver did not perceive the risk in time to stop the tram, or provide a warning in sufficient time to avoid the accident; the tram’s speed on the approach to the tram-stop and crossing was around 20 mph (32 km/h) and this was contrary to the way the driver had been trained; the tram did not stop at the tram-stop; the pedestrians were unaware of the immediate proximity of the tram, because seeing people waiting in the tram-stop shelter led them to assume that the tram would stop. As a result, they did not look to their left again as they crossed until just before the collision.

The probable causal factors were: the tram driver’s attention was to the left-hand side approaching the crossing; the tram driver incorrectly believed that the people in the tram shelter did not want to board the tram; and it is feasible that the combination of factors relating to the way the tram was driven were caused by the driver’s inexperience.

 

[Tramfan]

Back in the 1980s, the Tyne & Wear Metro briefly ran "express" services at peak time, skipping a small number of stations (one of which I believe was Palmersville). I would assume none of the other UK Light Rail/Tram systems have had timetables that feature services which specifically omit certain stops

 

[WatcherZero]

T&W ran the express services as they had to build around the freight paths that still operated on their network.

 

[mike57]

Sheffield tram stops are request, and in practice drivers will slow down a bit at some of the lightly used stops and see if anyone is getting on or off, then accelerate away once its clear no one wants the stop. From memory stop announcements are something like "Calling by request at ...."

 

[gnolife]

Back in the 1980s, the Tyne & Wear Metro briefly ran "express" services at peak time, skipping a small number of stations (one of which I believe was Palmersville). I would assume none of the other UK Light Rail/Tram systems have had timetables that feature services which specifically omit certain stops

Woodlands Road on the Metrolink in the run up to closure is the only thing I can think of for that

 

[Trainfan344]

Sheffield tram stops are request, and in practice drivers will slow down a bit at some of the lightly used stops and see if anyone is getting on or off, then accelerate away once its clear no one wants the stop. From memory stop announcements are something like "Calling by request at ...."

Interestingly the announcement for the terminus is the next stop by request is... Certainly makes you worry

 

[507 001]

Woodlands Road on the Metrolink in the run up to closure is the only thing I can think of for that

That was more that the station was only open between 9am and 4pm.

 

[alxndr]

Sheffield tram stops are request, and in practice drivers will slow down a bit at some of the lightly used stops and see if anyone is getting on or off, then accelerate away once its clear no one wants the stop. From memory stop announcements are something like "Calling by request at ...."

I think it's "The next stop by request is x".

As a first time user the other month I wasn't entirely sure if that meant the next stop was x as it had already been requested, or the next stop could be x if it was requested.

 

[D365]

I think it's "The next stop by request is x".

As a first time user the other month I wasn't entirely sure if that meant the next stop was x as it had already been requested, or the next stop could be x if it was requested.

Correct. All stops are announced.

I do have to agree that the Supertram mode of operation isn't really explained on board. It's quite difficult for first-time tram users.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Correct. All stops are announced.

I do have to agree that the Supertram mode of operation isn't really explained on board. It's quite difficult for first-time tram users.

Is it not just the same as a bus, with which people will likely already be familiar?

 

[D365]

Is it not just the same as a bus, with which people will likely already be familiar?

Not entirely - doors have to be opened manually, and the ticket sales are done by an onboard conductor. Aside from that all stops are "by request", it feels much more like a train.

 

[alxndr]

Is it not just the same as a bus, with which people will likely already be familiar?

Not really. And it doesn't necessarily follow that someone who uses trams is familiar with busses, and what does that really mean when all busses seem to have different etiquette (the reason I avoid busses wherever possible).

Looks like a train, runs on rails like a train, tickets are sold by the conductor like some trains (admittedly a decreasing number), and doors open like a train, but you tell it to stop like a bus.

I ended up finding a YouTube video someone had made for foreign tourists before my first journey. Still not entirely sure I get it "right" but close enough that I don't get any bother.

 

[ALEMASTER]

For those interested, Stagecoach Supertram produced a user guide video for when the Tram Train route launched - you can watch it here >>

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting that the door button can, as in Germany and Switzerland, be pushed before it stops. I am not aware of that being possible elsewhere in the UK despite being a standard Stadler "thing" elsewhere.

 

[edwin_m]

Interesting that the door button can, as in Germany and Switzerland, be pushed before it stops. I am not aware of that being possible elsewhere in the UK despite being a standard Stadler "thing" elsewhere.

I think Metrolink has this. In at least one German network (Karlsruhe I think) the door open button is also the stop request button.

There is a possible hazard if the button is pressed on the wrong side and the driver then releases the doors on the wrong side, when that door would open. If the buttons aren't enabled until the tram stops, then passengers are probably less likely to press it if they can see the platform is on the other side.

 

[mike57]

Correct. All stops are announced.

I do have to agree that the Supertram mode of operation isn't really explained on board. It's quite difficult for first-time tram users.

I find the Supertram easy to use when I travel to Sheffield, but I agree there is really no 'How to' on their website and the information at the stops is a bit lacking. Silly thing it wouldn't take a lot, probably 3 or 4 bullet points, and dont confuse it with the obligatory H&S stuff. First time I used it I was going to Halfway, which is the end anyway, the conductress told me I needed a day ticket if I was returning (which I was) as it was cheaper than 2 singles (points for selling cheapest option) and watching people I pretty quickly got the hang of how it works. People who are less used to travelling may get a bit confused, but the staff seem pretty decent and seem to help those who need it. I haven't used the Tram-Trains

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find the Supertram easy to use when I travel to Sheffield, but I agree there is really no 'How to' on their website and the information at the stops is a bit lacking. Silly thing it wouldn't take a lot, probably 3 or 4 bullet points, and dont confuse it with the obligatory H&S stuff. First time I used it I was going to Halfway, which is the end anyway, the conductress told me I needed a day ticket if I was returning (which I was) as it was cheaper than 2 singles (points for selling cheapest option) and watching people I pretty quickly got the hang of how it works. People who are less used to travelling may get a bit confused, but the staff seem pretty decent and seem to help those who need it. I haven't used the Tram-Trains

It's probably easier than most because of the conductors, rather than having to work out what ticket to buy and getting Penalty Fared when you get it wrong. Though "cash only" is certainly dated.

 

[Tramfan]

Interesting that the door button can, as in Germany and Switzerland, be pushed before it stops. I am not aware of that being possible elsewhere in the UK despite being a standard Stadler "thing" elsewhere.

The Blackpool Bombardier trams have this also, with the button acting as a stop request

 

[tbtc]

A lot of criticism for Supertram here - it has to be remembered that this was a short distance "bus replacement" rather than a longer distance "rail replacement" (Manchester/ Tyneside etc), so a lot of the features have more in common with buses

Conductors are certainly good (no hiding away) and commonly pointing out the best fares (its not just the "day ticket is cheaper than two singles" but also the range of other fares depending on whether you want to include Stagecoach buses or all local buses with your ticket - something that isn't an option on some other light rail networks)

I'm not saying it's beyond criticism (the original set up was a bit of a mess, with "validators" at tram stops etc) and it's not always made the best decisions (e.g. putting electronic information boards up at certain stops but not "live" information, which means it tells you when the next tram should be arriving rather than taking any delays into account, which isn't great - since the trams share most of the network with other road users, there's a lot more scope for delays than on some other light rail networks) - I'd agree that it seems daft to have separate buttons for "stop" and "open doors", I won't defend that decision!


It's certainly not seen the investment/extensions that other networks have had (the much delayed TramTrain seems to be more about the Government searching for somewhere for their complicated feasibility study rather than a priority for SYPTE if they'd had the money to spend where they wanted), but it generally works pretty well - I've not watched a video of how to use it, but then how main TOCs provided a video of how to use a train or bus companies provided videos of how to use a bus?

Though "cash only" is certainly dated.

Supertram isn't cash only though

 

[Bletchleyite]

Supertram isn't cash only though

The above video says it is. Changed recently I guess?

 

[javelin]

It was still cash only when that video was made, around 2018. Early last year they started accepting card, devices etc.

 

[mmh]

Sheffield tram stops are request, and in practice drivers will slow down a bit at some of the lightly used stops and see if anyone is getting on or off, then accelerate away once its clear no one wants the stop. From memory stop announcements are something like "Calling by request at ...."

This is how Croydon Tramlink used to work, but there were no announcements - officially if not in practice every stop was a request stop.

 

[DDB]

Nottingham is confusing as it used to be stopping by request. However at very the start of the pandemic they switched to stopping at every station and the driver opening all doors at every station. This was so people didn't have to touch the stop or door open buttons. I belive they switched back at some point but it is busy enough on the bits that I use that there is always at least one person for every stop.