Condition 19 - Rover tickets

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Ivo

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The famous Condition 19 states the following:

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.
This wording would suggest to me that it is not permitted to use two adjoining Rover tickets to cover a journey in which the crossover point between Rover tickets is at a station where the passenger's train does not stop (e.g. Severn & Solent to Devon & Cornwall on a service that does not call at Tiverton Parkway). Is this correct, or just the Condition beng less-than-perfectly written?
 
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bb21

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This wording would suggest to me that it is not permitted to use two adjoining Rover tickets to cover a journey in which the crossover point between Rover tickets is at a station where the passenger's train does not stop (e.g. Severn & Solent to Devon & Cornwall on a service that does not call at Tiverton Parkway). Is this correct, or just the Condition beng less-than-perfectly written?
You have understood it correctly.

Only one leisure pass or season in the context of Condition 19(c) when used on a non-stop service.
 

b0b

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Any particular reason for this? Has it always been this way?

(You can probably guess why I'm asking ;))
My guess is it was a perk to season ticket holders so they wouldn't pay twice to cover the "area" their season ticket covers for occasional journeys not completely covered by their season ticket ....
 

John @ home

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Any particular reason for this?
My guess is that, in an era when local commuter travel was subsidised but inter-city rail was expected to cover its full costs, the restriction of only one season ticket was introduced to try to prevent passengers using a combination of local commuter season tickets to obtain subsidised inter-city travel.
Has it always been this way?
Not with exactly the same wording. The versions I have immediate access to are:
British Railways Board National Conditions of Carriage said:
7 January 1997

17. Combining two or more tickets
You may use two or more tickets to travel on one train journey provided that:
(a) they cover the entire journey; and
(b) one of the following applies:
(i) they are both zonal tickets;
(ii) the train you are on calls at the station(s) where you change from one ticket to another; or
(iii) one of the tickets is a season ticket and one of them is not and any train operated by the same Train Company calls at the station(s) where you change from one ticket to another.

If you make a journey using two or more tickets when these conditions are not met you will be treated as having joined the train without a valid ticket for that part of the journey not covered by the tickets you hold and Condition 7 or 8 will apply to it as if it were a separate journey.

http://www.crowsnest.co.uk/north/br_ncc.htm
National Rail Conditions of Carriage said:
20 February 2000

17. A combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets to travel on one train journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:-
(a) they are zonal tickets;
(b) the train you are on calls at the station where you change from one ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a season ticket, which for this purpose does not include season tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority, and the other ticket(s) is/are not. You must comply with any restriction of use to a particular Train Company's trains shown on the tickets (see Condition 10).

If you do not comply with these conditions you will be treated as having joined the train without a valid ticket and Condition 7 or 8 (whichever is relevant) will apply either to the journey, or from the last station where the train called at which your tickets were valid to travel on the same train.
National Rail Conditions of Carriage said:
24 July 2006

19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.
You must comply with any restriction shown on the tickets relating to travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies (see Condition 10).

If you do not comply with this Condition, you will be treated as having joined the train without a ticket and the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply, either to the entire journey, or from the last station where the train stopped at which at least one of the tickets was valid.

For the purposes of this Condition, a “leisure travel pass” means any multi-journey ticket (excluding Season Tickets) valid for:
(i) at least 7 consecutive days; or
(ii) at least 3 days in a period of at least 7 consecutive days
and includes rover tickets, travel passes, flexipass tickets and BritRail passes.
 

Ivo

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Why am I not surprised that the 1997 version is the clearest and most concise? :roll:

Thank you for the responses. This will make planning the FoSS meet ever-so-slightly more awkward, but in practice not a problem at all.
 

34D

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(e.g. Severn & Solent to Devon & Cornwall on a service that does not call at Tiverton Parkway). Is this correct, or just the Condition beng less-than-perfectly written?
Two zonal tickets, surely?

A zone system doesn't have to encompass nested zones like London (imo).

Unlike others, I'll add that this is purely my own opinion. I won't assert it as fact, it is just how I (someone with a fairly low-level legal qualification) interpret it.
 

yorkie

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Why am I not surprised that the 1997 version is the clearest and most concise? :roll:
And also the most restrictive, forcing you to take trains operated by Companies that call at the changeover point.

The text about leisure passes is also for our benefit, as some guards tried to claim they were non-Seasons. GNER were even stupid enough to take it to court. The passenger won the case.

I am also confused why you seem to prefer the 1997 version when it dis-benefits customers.
 
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tamesidedepot

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slightly related to this. I am using a Freedom of the North West ticket in August and want to have a day in Edinburgh. The northern boundary of the NW ticket is Lockerbie, so my understanding is I just need to get a return from Lockerbie to Edinburgh, my only query being does the train have to stop at Lockerbie?
My plan is to get the 0545 from MIA out (stops at Lockerbie) then the 1652 Virgin train back to Preston (does not stop at Lockerbie), of course I could get the TPE at 1612 but that would be too long on a 185 for a day!
 

bb21

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slightly related to this. I am using a Freedom of the North West ticket in August and want to have a day in Edinburgh. The northern boundary of the NW ticket is Lockerbie, so my understanding is I just need to get a return from Lockerbie to Edinburgh, my only query being does the train have to stop at Lockerbie?
No, it does not.

The Freedom of North West Rover ticket is a leisure pass for the purpose of Condition 19(c).
 
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