Conductor: Any chance with drink drive conviction?

Discussion in 'Railway Jobs & Careers' started by Flick, 19 Dec 2019.

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  1. Red1980

    Red1980 Member

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    Nothing wrong with ringing the employer to hear it from the horse's mouth so to speak. Saves a shed load of time filling in application forms etc and they may actually tell him how long needs to pass before he can apply....if at all.

    Not to mention every TOC has different criteria regarding their recruitment whether you declare or not.
     
    Last edited: 20 Dec 2019
  2. Belperpete

    Belperpete Member

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    Ringing to ask is a good idea as it is unlikely that anything would go on the record that could affect your future chances. BUT to get anything useful, you would need to speak to someone involved in recruitment. Many organisations with high numbers of applicants deliberately don't give out such contact details until they have had a first sieve of the applications, to save them from being swamped with phone calls. If you can find a suitable telephone number for the TOCs you are considering applying to, then phone and ask, but no point in phoning the general customer relations number, for example.
     
  3. JLyons

    JLyons Member

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    nothing wrong with it if you want to rule yourself out the job!

    “Hi mate I was gonna apply for your job but I’ve been done for drink driving few years back, am I still ok to apply?”

    why even have that conversation if you can simply check yourself in a matter of minutes (and in a lot less time than we’ve all spent debating it) and then not have to mention it at all?
     
  4. Red1980

    Red1980 Member

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    Definitely mate.
     
    Last edited: 20 Dec 2019
  5. 404250

    404250 Member

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    This is very confusing. So convictions are spent after one year if you get a fine or community order? Has this changed recently? I thought it was 5 years. There can be some serious offences where the offender only gets community order and fine.
     
  6. JLyons

    JLyons Member

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    Prison sentence Rehabilitation period (from end of sentence)

    6 months or less = 2 years

    Between 6 months and 30 months =4 years

    Between 30 months and 4 years = 7 years

    More than 4 years Conviction = never spent


    Other punishments Rehabilitation period (from end of sentence)

    Community order (such as unpaid work) = 1 year

    Fine = 1 year (from date of conviction)
     
  7. Red1980

    Red1980 Member

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    If that rules him out of a job then so be it.....that's one of the consequences of his actions the day he was caught/convicted.

    Why have the conversation? Because every TOC has a different view on these sorts of things whether they're declared or not and he may still be in with a shot even if he has to declare it. What's said on a GOV website isn't the defining factor if someone can apply or not or whether they're taken on.....that's down to the company's discretion.

    A quick phone call will tell him A- if he has to declare it or not and B- whether it's worth him applying given the short time frame that's passed. There's nothing wrong with being an open book from the start....it's not like this was a conviction from 20 years ago.

    The company, the grade, the colleagues and the public deserve that respect .

    Bottom line is after the phone call EVERYONE will know where they stand and there won't be any need for guesswork.
     
  8. 404250

    404250 Member

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    If there was a driving ban I'd guess it would be spent a year after the ban ended rather than a year after the court date. Could be wrong though.
     
  9. JLyons

    JLyons Member

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    It would be the court date, they’re only interested in the criminal conviction not after checking someone’s points on their driving license
     
  10. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

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    Recordable just means it’s recordable on the Police National Computer, nothing to do with prison. Of course, one can go to prison for drink driving, but that’s not because it’s recordable.
     
  11. Rockhopper

    Rockhopper Member

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    Interestingly if anyone is considering applying for their shotgun or firearms certificates there is no such thing as a spent offence for the purposes of the firearms act. Everything needs to be declared (including traffic offences other than parking tickets) going back to your first encounter with the Police.
     
  12. toot toot

    toot toot Member

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    Absolutely no chance your getting a job with that on your record mate.
    No one is going to employ you in a safety critical role with a DD on record.
     
  13. Need2

    Need2 Member

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    Well I know that to be totally inaccurate.
    Not saying it will be easy.

    And to add what some people have accurately stated, a DD conviction stays with you (you HAVE to divulge to a prospective employer) for 5 years from the conviction date.
    It then becomes spent.(then you do not have to divulge) Do not listen to anyone else saying anything different.
     
  14. Red1980

    Red1980 Member

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    It's not actually "totally inaccurate" it would be far from the realms of impossibility for every TOC to say no chance. Especially whilst it's declarable.
     
  15. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    Fantastic amount of disinformation already posted. None of which has mentioned the DBS filtering process that's been in place since 2013.

    The licence endorsement for a drink driving conviction is known as a DR10. These are usually filtered from a Standard DBS check so should not need to be disclosed to employers as they should not show on a DBS certificate. They do though need to be declared to vehicle insurers, who, unlike the majority of employers, ask you specifically about licence endorsements.

    If the other elements of the sentence for drink driving are 'spent' (fine= 1 year, ban= until end of ban. The longer of the two apply), and it is the only offence on record, then there's no need to declare.

    https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/filtering-cautions-convictions/

    It should be remembered that DBS and CRB before it was only ever meant as a protection for the young and vulnerable. They're may be some aspects of that involved in working as a guard which is why TOCs do a DRB check. Safety critical matters are beyond the scope of DRB. Those are matters for the employer and statutory safety bodies to decide on.
     
    Last edited: 23 Dec 2019
  16. Need2

    Need2 Member

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    Sorry but you are posting mid information yourself!
    The dr10 is indeed a dvla code that will not have any interest to an employer unless the job involves driving!
    However, the rest of your post is wrong.
    The CRIMINAL conviction for drink driving is classed as an endorsable offence and will be only be ‘spent’ after 5 years. The length of the ban has nothing to do with it.
    if an employer asks you if you have any unspent convictions (and your disqualification was within 5 years) and you say no then you will he found out. After 5 years it is spent.
     
  17. Red1980

    Red1980 Member

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    Not necessarily true either. When I was a CONDUCTOR we were told that should we ever get done for drink driving it'd need to be declared to them.

    So it's definitely of interest to them.not just for driving positions. Safety critical is safety critical.
     
  18. richw

    richw Established Member

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    From a solicitor (Geoffrey Miller Solicitors) webpage...

    https://motoroffence.co.uk/common-questions/

     
  19. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

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    It’s the case with where I am too. In fact, they make a point of specifying declaring a drink driving conviction to our manager in writing. It won’t mean dismissal, but they need to know about it.

    I’d imagine that it wouldn’t necessarily be an issue when applying for jobs either, however the very fact that so many people apply in the first place, would make it even harder to pass a papersift. Also, if the ban still applies, there’s the issue of getting to/from work.
     
  20. hooverboy

    hooverboy Established Member

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    Here is a pretty conclusive pecking order for the security checks in the UK-Not a complete set, but good enough
    ( missing E-BPSS and E-DV, and there are some changes in lapse periods for those who hold SC/DV directly from MOD/HMF/HMG and List X)

    egb-consulting.co.uk/the-5-levels-of-security-clearance

    For a TOC,the relevant clearance levels would be a selection from below.

    DBS is very basic...you need to declare unspent convictions.
    BPSS next level up .you declare everything, spent and unspent.Similar to firearms application(Enhanced BPSS is a bit more in depth)
    CTC.. Next level up again- done in tandem with BPSS, but this time includes preliminary background check by GCHQ, used for sites/situations potentially vulnerable to commercial espionage,and terrorism .
     
  21. Red1980

    Red1980 Member

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    I knew I wasn't going mad and thought that was the case hahaha

    . Yeah agree totally mate it certainly won't get you sacked (although they would then have many concerns about your situational judgement going forward) but as we know there's a huge difference in getting convicted whilst employed and applying from outside with the conviction. Especially as you say with the numbers that apply.

    People with squeaky clean records and Excellent applications sometimes and actually very frequently don't make it through paper sifts so it'd be some achievement to make it through with a DD conviction on the form.

    If I was the hiring manager I'd want at least 5 years to have passed from the time the conviction became spent and even then I'd be sceptical......but I am talking as a former Bobby with experience of attending incidents where this offence has ruined lives....so maybe I'm biased.
     
  22. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

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    Agree with all of that. If the hiring manager has 100 fantastic applications on his or her desk and has to sift it to 50, and one of those has a conviction for drink driving, any manager would instantly discount that application. Why wouldn’t they? It makes the sift that little bit easier. I’ve done some recruiting before in my previous role and I would sift applications right down to travelling distance if I had to. Having any conviction would make my life even easier too (although our vetting procedures dictated that pretty much any conviction would be a bar to employment).
     
  23. Llama

    Llama Established Member

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    Why do you think that safety-crit staff are required to inform their line manager of drink or drug related brushes with the law? Most TOCs safety cases will stipulate that such individuals must be subjected to more frequent 'random' D & A testing. There is no realistic way that someone with a recent DUI conviction is getting through a sift where there are significant numbers of suitable applicants.
     
  24. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    Discrimination.

    You couldn't automatically discount an applicant with an unspent conviction unless it directly impacted on their role/responsibility. There is no requirement to drive for a Conductor and as already highlighted; it isn't an issue for employees to have said conviction.

    If this was a driving job then I would be hesitant to employ someone with a driving conviction; especially if it would adversely affect your insurance.

    I have never seen anything that states you cannot be employed if you have any specific convictions.
     
  25. Rockhopper

    Rockhopper Member

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    A spent conviction should be treated as though it never happened so it would be wrong to refuse to employ someone because of it. If the conviction is unspent then you absolutely can refuse to employ someone because of it.

    https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/convictions-employment-law-2/

    So basically if you have an unspent conviction you have very few rights.
     
  26. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

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    Incorrect. Discrimination doesn’t come in to it as it’s an unspent conviction. If a manager is worried about not selecting one applicant over another based on a drink driving conviction, they have no backbone. One would never prove any form of discrimination where employment to a safety critical industry is involved (or any other industry to be honest), especially where there’s often thousands of applicants. Driving is irrelevant. There’s other factors to consider such as their general character, decision making and NTS. None of the above requires progressing a candidate to interview stage to ascertain.
     
  27. Red1980

    Red1980 Member

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    Erm yes you could.

    What's advertised or not advertised in this case is very VERY different to what goes on within a room of people sifting through hundreds of applications where most of them have squeaky clean records.

    What is this fascination with driving jobs? In terms of safety critical responsibility a guard is no less important than the driver.....the driver is in charge of something that does what it's told (the train) the guard is in charge of what could be 500 unpredictable animals.

    It's very much an issue for companies hence why they ask safety critical staff to declare such convictions should they get them whilst employed. I think you're very much playing down the severity of this offence in relation to safety critical roles.
     
  28. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    https://www.gov.uk/exoffenders-and-employment

    If this was a driving role then it would be very relevant. Driving isn't a pre-requisit for the job, therefore a driving conviction shouldn't directly affect employment into a role where it isn't required. There are some jobs where you are restricted due to specific convictions; which is what the gov.co.uk is referring to. I am not aware of a Conductor having any specific restrictions, although a conviction for theft could count against you because of the cash handling aspect.

    If a drink driving conviction was not allowed in the role then if you were convicted whilst on the job, you would be dismissed. It isn't and there is no issue with having a drink driving conviction as a Conductor or even a Driver.
     
  29. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    For clarity, job that would involve DRIVING A CAR. As in a 'driving job'
     
  30. Red1980

    Red1980 Member

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    Totally agree mate. People seem to think that just because it's not advertised that they can't rule someone out for this offence they're in with just as much of a chance as anyone. Definitely not the case. What's advertised and what goes on are different.
     
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