Confirmation of rolling stock changes at Southeastern, including 707s

[jopsuk]

Out of the post-privatisation third rail EMUs, I understand it's only the Class 458s that may encounter some difficulty with being retrofitted.

460s were built without capability; 458s were but I don't think it was tested? Which means the 458s that are entirely 460 rebuilds don't have capability

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Anyone with good photoshop skills knocked up what they'll look like is SE livery yet?

Depends if a new livery appears, if Corona ends and we get a new franchise, etc...

 

[eastwestdivide]

Do we have any reliable corroborating source for the transfer yet, apart from Rail magazine's website? Like a press release or announcement?
Nothing on Southeastern's news/media centre: https://newsroom.southeasternrailway.co.uk/ (or their twitter feed)
Nothing on Angel Trains news page: https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Latest
or Angel's 707 page: https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Products-Services/Regional-Passenger-Trains/52

 

[Energy]

Anyone with good photoshop skills knocked up what they'll look like is SE livery yet?

It's ya boi James on Twitter

“Class 458 and Class 707 in Southeastern 'Metro' livery”

twitter.com

Someone made one a while ago

 

[Energy]

Do we have any reliable corroborating source for the transfer yet, apart from Rail magazine's website? Like a press release or announcement?
Nothing on Southeastern's news/media centre: https://newsroom.southeasternrailway.co.uk/ (or their twitter feed)
Nothing on Angel Trains news page: https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Latest
or Angel's 707 page: https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Products-Services/Regional-Passenger-Trains/52

RailAdvent also said it, although their source could just be Rail magazine.

 

[brad465]

Anyone with good photoshop skills knocked up what they'll look like is SE livery yet?

On Southeastern's Wiki page yesterday someone had a go on under the Future Fleet sub heading, but that seems to have disappeared now.

 

[Doomotron]

I don't think a 465/466 must be particularly fun on a service into London Bridge at 8am on a Monday morning and 5pm return!

I don't think they would be, but I do enjoy them on Dover services (especially when they go non-stop between Dover and Canterbury).

 

[Energy]

On Southeastern's Wiki page yesterday someone had a go on under the Future Fleet sub heading, but that seems to have disappeared now.

Just went on the history tab of the wiki page to get it, here it is!

(obviously not my drawing)

 

[Mikey C]

Unlike in some other places, passengers do actually occupy the middle seats in the South East pretty readily.

Agreed, the passengers are happy to squeeze in.

Or replaced the seats with more upright ones. The bays of 6 on LNR 350/2s have very generous legroom indeed. It's the BR suburban seats used in the 1980s and 90s EMUs which mean things are packed in because they're quite steeply raked, wasting a lot of space.

Good point, if each seat was a bit more upright you could easily liberate as extra 1 to 2 inches per passengers

 

[387star]

707s are slightly better than 700s in terms of passenger comfort as they have plug sockets wifi and moquette although no comfy first class and no flip down tables

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

460s were built without capability; 458s were but I don't think it was tested? Which means the 458s that are entirely 460 rebuilds don't have capability

IIRC, the original 458s had pantograph wells and some buttons in the cab that didn't connect to anything. The 460s had absolutely nothing. The buttons were removed in the 458/5 conversion work, as part of modifications to make make the ex-458 and ex-460 cabs identical.

 

[TheWalrus]

Out of the post-privatisation third rail EMUs, I understand it's only the Class 458s that may encounter some difficulty with being retrofitted.

According to Wikipedia they are due to be replaced by 701s so not sure where they will be headed next.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

According to Wikipedia they are due to be replaced by 701s so not sure where they will be headed next.

Breaker's yard...

 

[fgwrich]

Ian Visit's has also now covered this with a brief comment from South Eastern.

Additional trains for Southeastern

A fleet of trains ordered for South West Trains are to be transferred to Southeastern to increase capacity on the network.

www.ianvisits.co.uk

A fleet of trains ordered for South West Trains are to be transferred to Southeastern to increase capacity on the network.
A quantity of Class 707 trains were ordered back in 2014, but when FirstGroup/MTR was awarded the South Western franchise in 2017, it annnounced that it would standardise its services on Bombardier Class 701 trains.
With the Class 707 trains no longer needed, but also very young in rolling stock terms, an agreement has been signed to migrate them over to Southeastern.
A Southeastern spokesman said: “We are in the early stages of planning for additional capacity for the Southeastern network”, adding that “We are dependent on the availability of existing rolling stock, and we are working with the industry on a plan to transfer 30 x 5 car Class 707 units which are currently in service on the South Western Railway network – only when they become available.”
They were expected to be made available for reuse last year, but delays in delivering the replacement trains to SWR has slowed that plan.
The transfer agreement is part of the Direct Award Contract announced last month with the Department for Transport
The 30 five-car trains are expected to be used on Southeastern’s Metro routes within London, although the specifics are still be to worked out.

‹ Take a drivers eye trip along the Mail Rail

Tagged with: Southeastern

 

[Juniper Driver]

Wow...Late article...I've known for a long time it was supposed to be the end of this year (and even before that) that the 707's were going...It's been put forward so many times and they were still training drivers on 707's till just recently.I've been trained on them for over two years and quite like them (too much computer stuff,though).They are popular with traincrew as probably one of the most (easily workable) comfortable well thought out cabs of any trains I have driven.As with current events it looks like 701's will be delayed so 707's will be staying a bit longer.Would like to see one in the new livery,it's grown on me.Must have got bored with the old livery.They are capable of having toilets fitted.Provision has been made AFAIK.

455/456 and 458's (and 707) will be going somewhere near when the 701's arrive.Perhaps it will be like when the slam doors went and the Desiro's took over.

To be honest I don't want to see the 707's go.Not sure how popular they are by passenger standards,though.

They have the fastest acceleration of any EMU I have driven and the doors are fast opening and closing.On a side note I noticed a 444 the other day didn't drop so much on acceleration (and stayed at 100%) and suspect these have been upgraded recently or at least some of them.Told the relieving driver and he said he had a 450 like that recently.Probably due to the fact there are more substations around.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Wow...Late article...I've known for a long time it was supposed to be the end of this year (and even before that) that the 707's were going...It's been put forward so many times and they were still training drivers on 707's till just recently.I've been trained on them for over two years and quite like them (too much computer stuff,though).They are popular with traincrew as probably one of the most (easily workable) comfortable well thought out cabs of any trains I have driven.As with current events it looks like 701's will be delayed so 707's will be staying a bit longer.Would like to see one in the new livery,it's grown on me.Must have got bored with the old livery.They are capable of having toilets fitted.Provision has been made AFAIK.

455/456 and 458's (and 707) will be going somewhere near when the 701's arrive.Perhaps it will be like when the slam doors went and the Desiro's took over.

To be honest I don't want to see the 707's go.Not sure how popular they are by passenger standards,though.

They have the fastest acceleration of any EMU I have driven and the doors are fast opening and closing.I noticed a 444 the other day didn't drop so much on acceleration (and stayed at 100%) and suspect these have been upgraded recently or some of them.Told the releieving driver and he said he had a 450 like that recently.

Many people comment on the seats but really they're okay for short journeys, which is exactly what the 707s are used for. If they were being used on Weymouths I'd understand.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Many people comment on the seats but really they're okay for short journeys, which is exactly what the 707s are used for. If they were being used on Weymouths I'd understand.

Yup have travelled pass on the but on local they are ok.Have heard they have been used for Southampton?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Yup have travelled pass on the but on local they are ok.Have heard they have been used for Southampton?

A pair managed to make it to Southampton in December.

 

[Energy]

Wow...Late article...I've known for a long time it was supposed to be the end of this year (and even before that) that the 707's were going...It's been put forward so many times and they were still training drivers on 707's till just recently.I've been trained on them for over two years and quite like them (too much computer stuff,though).They are popular with traincrew as probably one of the most (easily workable) comfortable well thought out cabs of any trains I have driven.As with current events it looks like 701's will be delayed so 707's will be staying a bit longer.Would like to see one in the new livery,it's grown on me.Must have got bored with the old livery.They are capable of having toilets fitted.Provision has been made AFAIK.

Although it has been suggested and rumoured many times only recently was it officially confirmed.

 

[Domh245]

Strictly speaking, we're yet to see it officially confirmed by any of the parties involved yet! Even the IanVisits article only says that they're working on a plan!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Strictly speaking, we're yet to see it officially confirmed by any of the parties involved yet! Even the IanVisits article only says that they're working on a plan!

They will be working on a plan, but it will no doubt concern possible more stock. Certain parts of the fleet really want to go and I’m aware that’s something they might still be working on as there is some stuff out in the market at the moment...

 

[paulprentice]

Do we have any reliable corroborating source for the transfer yet, apart from Rail magazine's website? Like a press release or announcement?
Nothing on Southeastern's news/media centre: https://newsroom.southeasternrailway.co.uk/ (or their twitter feed)
Nothing on Angel Trains news page: https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Latest
or Angel's 707 page: https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Products-Services/Regional-Passenger-Trains/52

Glad to see my words are held in such esteem, as the reliable corroborating source! RAIL is correct, as are the other websites, including IanVisits and Rail Advent, and the current edition of RAIL has the full story.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Glad to see my words are held in such esteem, as the reliable corroborating source! RAIL is correct, as are the other websites, including IanVisits and Rail Advent, and the current edition of RAIL has the full story.

I think people were rightly checking that RAIL was correct and also that it wasn’t some sort of daft misinterpreted late quote from the direct award about new stock and misappropriating 707s accordingly. I think it’s fair to say it’s now obvious it’s not speculation.

 

[Mikey C]

If the 707s are going to SE whereas the 455s, 456s and probably the 458s are going to the train graveyard, it would be nice to release the 707s first...

 

[4-SUB 4732]

If the 707s are going to SE whereas the 455s, 456s and probably the 458s are going to the train graveyard, it would be nice to release the 707s first...

Believe that is most certainly the thing that will happen.

 

[D7666]

Isn't it more logical that the 707s will simply release the 376s for the oft suggested / quoted / speculated conversion to battery units.

They'll simply drop on one for one as 5car units on existing 5car unit diagrams. No loo units for no loo units.

There aren't quite as many 707s [30] as 376s [36] but even post-virus recovery - whenever that is - won't see numbers back to what they were for years, less demand for longer trains can be met by overall diagram juggling acoss the whole SET fleet.

The 376s then - with battery - release the 17x and so on.

--
Nick

 

[Domh245]

707s are due to be released from SWR first

 

[Milo T.K]

Nice to know that the 707s are ogint to SE wonder what the livery is going to be?

 

[Mikey C]

Isn't it more logical that the 707s will simply release the 376s for the oft suggested / quoted / speculated conversion to battery units.

They'll simply drop on one for one as 5car units on existing 5car unit diagrams. No loo units for no loo units.

There aren't quite as many 707s [30] as 376s [36] but even post-virus recovery - whenever that is - won't see numbers back to what they were for years, less demand for longer trains can be met by overall diagram juggling acoss the whole SET fleet.

The 376s then - with battery - release the 17x and so on.

--
Nick

Southeastern metro have got massive current and future passenger growth projections, they need MORE trains not fewer.

 

[pompeyfan]

707s are due to be released from SWR first

how recent were you told this? The plan changed a couple of months ago that 707s were to be retained until the end and that 455 and 456s would be seen off first, then 458s then 707s. Personally if SWR have any say what so ever I can’t blame them. The performance and reliability of the trains are now somewhere up there as the best 3rd rail, maybe even the most reliable electric unit by MTIN, and with SWT’s fleet unit not playing with the TINS any more they’re probably more accurate.