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Contingency Plans for Disabled Travellers

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greaterwest

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A lift may not be safe to use for evacuation.
Read any fire evacuation plan, they tell you specifically not to use the lifts because the power can get interrupted by the fire or cut off by the fire service.
I assumed this thread was specifically about disabled passengers being terminated short at "small"/"bleak" stations with no facilities/accessibility hence my reply, however it seems to have turned into a general discussion about the safe use of lifts in an emergency which opens a whole new can of worms not really suited to this section of the forum. Perhaps it's better off being moved to the "general discussion" forum.

What would you suggest disabled passengers do at a large multiplatform station (think of somewhere like Wimbledon, Surbiton, Woking or Portsmouth & Southsea) if the lift were unavailable in this situation?
 
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SussexLad

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I assumed this thread was specifically about disabled passengers being terminated short at "small"/"bleak" stations with no facilities/accessibility hence my reply, however it seems to have turned into a general discussion about the safe use of lifts in an emergency which opens a whole new can of worms not really suited to this section of the forum. Perhaps it's better off being moved to the "general discussion" forum.

What would you suggest disabled passengers do at a large multiplatform station (think of somewhere like Wimbledon, Surbiton, Woking or Portsmouth & Southsea) if the lift were unavailable in this situation?

I mean the fire brigade will still say no either way. Not really a discussion. The general direction is what does a disabled person generally do in a fire at a station?

In the case of Portsmouth and Southsea, I'd say use an evacuation chair to do down the stairs.
 

mcmad

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Given there is very little to burn on the average platform then that is probably the safest place to be.

Like Greaterwest, I've lost track of what the question is with this thread as it seems to be an ever changing case.
 

Llanigraham

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What would you suggest disabled passengers do at a large multiplatform station (think of somewhere like Wimbledon, Surbiton, Woking or Portsmouth & Southsea) if the lift were unavailable in this situation?

Follow the instructions of the Fire Marshals!
People acting on their own in circumstances are their own worst enemies, and cause more problems.
 

Tio Terry

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I assumed this thread was specifically about disabled passengers being terminated short at "small"/"bleak" stations with no facilities/accessibility hence my reply, however it seems to have turned into a general discussion about the safe use of lifts in an emergency which opens a whole new can of worms not really suited to this section of the forum. Perhaps it's better off being moved to the "general discussion" forum.

What would you suggest disabled passengers do at a large multiplatform station (think of somewhere like Wimbledon, Surbiton, Woking or Portsmouth & Southsea) if the lift were unavailable in this situation?

The usual NR lifts are not suitable for use in evacuation situations because they have only one power supply so could very easily be incapacitated. Lifts suitable for use in emergency situations have dual power supplies and have greater design involvement to ensure reliability of supply.

The usual advice is to go to the extreme end of a platform where you are less likely to be affected by smoke - which kills a lot more people than fire - because it is normally better ventilated. There are, of course, exceptions to this but it is a general rule.
 
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dosxuk

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Evacuation means to leave the building. As the guidance to the Regulatory Reform Order (RRO) states, the "evacuation plan should not rely upon the intervention of the Fire and Rescue Service to make it work" Just telling people to stay put and await the FRS is specifically NOT an evacuation plan.

Relying on the FRS is different to planning to use the FRS with alternative options in case they become necessary.

Example in case is one of the venues I work in has lift only access to the first floor, with a rated refugee space where disabled customers would be brought to in the the event of an evacuation. The plans, agreed with licensing and fire brigade is that we would not move people from there and instead await their attendance, with at least one member of our staff there at all times. In the event of the safety of those people being deemed to be at risk we have an evacuation chair and a number of staff are trained in its use. This would only be used by us if it was decided that those people needed to be evacuated before the FRS were able to attend.

Again, these procedures are agreed with the relevant authorities. We are not reliant on the FRS to evacuate from that space but all parties have agreed that it is better that they do so unless there is an immediate risk to life.
 

OneOffDave

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The usual NR lifts are not suitable for use in evacuation situations because they have only one power supply so could very easily be incapacitated. Lifts suitable for use in emergency situations have dual power supplies and have greater design involvement to ensure reliability of supply.

The usual advice is to go to the extreme end of a platform where you are less likely to be affected by smoke - which kills a lot more people than fire - because it is normally better ventilated. There are, of course, exceptions to this but it is a general rule.
The question still remains as to how they'd get you off the platform and how they'd keep you safe in the interim. As a little experiment, wear what you'd normally wear for commuting on a day like today and then try sitting outside not moving your legs. It surprised me how much faster you get cold as a wheelchair user. If the plan is to evacuate by train, how long will it take before trains are running again? If you were stranded on the platform on a day like today, as a wheelchair user you'd be getting hypothermic within about an hour. The other concern is although compartments are meant to have 60 minute fire resistance, as in the case of Nottingham station what was actually built wasn't what was designed.

Shafts for fire-fighting lifts are designed to have forced ventilation giving them a higher pressure than the surrounding floors to reduce/prevent smoke ingress. The same is usually true of escape stairwells in tall buildings

Having staff who are prepared to 'stay behind' is good but how likely are they to actually stay in a real event rather than a drill? It's a massive unknown. The situation described that has been agreed does meet the duty under the regs as it doesn't rely on the FRS even though they'll be a useful adjunct and would turn up and assist in most cases before it became a life risk

Initially the thread was about non-fire strandings on inaccessible platforms but has drifted into fire situations too
 

ainsworth74

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The more general discussion about using lifts in a fire can now be found in it's own thread here. This thread should remain focussed on matters relating to railways and stations.
 
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