Continued use of m-tickets

[All Line Rover]

(This is the same as my earlier thread, but for m-tickets)

Are there any TOCs, third-party retailers and/or call centres that continue to offer m-tickets as a fulfilment method for certain journey + ticket type combinations?

If m-tickets are still in limited circulation, why? Why have they not been phased out?

 

[Hadders]

ATOS Wordline sites (e.g. GW, TOE, SWR etc.) claim to offer e-tickets but then claim you need to have their app installed, meaning that they are not e-tickets at all but m-tickets. Does anyone know what the exact position is?

On a related subject is it possible to purchase an e-ticket without a suggested itinerary on it? WOrdline sites can certainly do it for paper tickets so I expect they could do it for e-tickets if they do in fact issue them.

 

[yorkie]

There really is no excuse to sell m-tickets any more; the format should be immediately abandoned in favour of e-tickets now.

 

[Wallsendmag]

They are also on their way out

 

[FenMan]

Has a date been set?

 

[_toommm_]

ATOS Wordline sites (e.g. GW, TOE, SWR etc.) claim to offer e-tickets but then claim you need to have their app installed, meaning that they are not e-tickets at all but m-tickets. Does anyone know what the exact position is?

On a related subject is it possible to purchase an e-ticket without a suggested itinerary on it? WOrdline sites can certainly do it for paper tickets so I expect they could do it for e-tickets if they do in fact issue them.

TPE and GWR definitely e-tickets (PDF straight to your emails and/or the option to show it in the app). Never used the SWR app but as it's First I'd presume the same.

I'm guessing the wording hasn't been updated as up until a year or so they only offered m-tickets, albeit they didn't need activating nor look like what most m-tickets look like (time at the top, moving with a background of colours).

 

[HBP]

TPE and GWR definitely e-tickets (PDF straight to your emails and/or the option to show it in the app)

Confusingly (to me) the GWR confirmation email always go on about printing it out. I thought the whole idea was to just show the PDF from your phone.

‘You have chosen E Ticket, which means you are responsible for printing your own tickets. If you have not already printed your tickets, please open and print the attached PDF, containing all the tickets purchased in this order.’

The last time I bought a ticket through the Northern app they were still M-tickets that required activating before travel.

 

[londiscape]

Is there any reason not to always use trainsplit or trainscanbecheaper instead of TOC websites - as these will always issue proper e-tickets with PDF by email? And we know from experience via this website that they won't fob you off if something goes wrong - which is more can be said of TOCs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there any reason not to always use trainsplit or trainscanbecheaper instead of TOC websites - as these will always issue proper e-tickets with PDF by email? And we know from experience via this website that they won't fob you off if something goes wrong - which is more can be said of TOCs.

At last count the GWR app wasn't capable of issuing m-tickets, so you'll either get an e-ticket or you'll get a ToD code. Unless they've updated it.

 

[WelshBluebird]

For GWR - the confusion was that the tickets used to be similar to standard e-tickets in that you didn't have to activate them and they looked like other standard e-tickets, however as you could only show them via the GWR mobile app they were essentially m-tickets. But they did not do "m-tickets" in the form that some other ToC's (like TfW) do that require activation etc.

However, from recent experience, GWR now do also email you a PDF with the ticket so they are proper e-tickets now.

To add a bit more too - third parties such as The Trainline etc have offered proper e-tickets for GWR flows since they were introduced, even when GWR themselves were only offering them via the app!

Not a mess at all! But I guess well done to GWR for at least sorting a bit of it out!

 

[Bletchleyite]

For GWR - the confusion was that the tickets used to be similar to standard e-tickets in that you didn't have to activate them and they looked like other standard e-tickets, however as you could only show them via the GWR mobile app they were essentially m-tickets. But they did not do "m-tickets" in the form that some other ToC's (like TfW) do that require activation etc.

They were e-tickets, it's just that for some stupid reason they didn't attach the PDF version to the confirmation e-mail, which was rather silly. I'm betting that was that they forgot to specify it when they contracted the app's development (it isn't, or wasn't, unlike the others, a skinned version of one of the usual ones).

 

[All Line Rover]

TPE and GWR definitely e-tickets (PDF straight to your emails and/or the option to show it in the app). Never used the SWR app but as it's First I'd presume the same.

I'm guessing the wording hasn't been updated as up until a year or so they only offered m-tickets, albeit they didn't need activating nor look like what most m-tickets look like (time at the top, moving with a background of colours).

I've done a test booking on a TPE service through TPE's website and yes, you're right. PDFs attached to the confirmation email. That's good news. Although it doesn't reflect well on these train companies that they can't be bothered to update their websites to accurately state something as critical to their business as how ticket purchases are fulfilled. Especially confusing is the confirmation email, which describes both the m-ticket and e-ticket formats in one paragraph!

"To receive your tickets you will need to download the TPExpress app, available from Apple or Google Play Store, then sign-in to My tickets within the app.Please click here for information on how to download the application. You have chosen E Ticket, which means you are responsible for printing your own tickets. If you have not already printed your tickets, please open and print the attached PDF, containing all the tickets purchased in this order."

I've copied the above paragraph exactly. All typos are in the email.

Are we absolutely sure that all ATOS-powered sites fulfil with the e-ticket format, despite the information on these websites describing the m-ticket format?

 

[Starmill]

That text refers to when they implemented what were purported to be "etickets" but were device locked. They didn't require activation and therefore were not mtickets.

 

[All Line Rover]

GWR... did not do "m-tickets" in the form that some other ToC's (like TfW) do that require activation etc.

Does TfW use m-tickets for anything other than "Multiflex"? (Yet more jargon - a fancy word for carnets.)

I've tried various test bookings on TfW's website for core TfW routes and only ever get offered TVM (ticket vending machine) collection.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Does TfW use m-tickets for anything other than "Multiflex"? (Yet more jargon - a fancy word for carnets.)

I've tried various test bookings on TfW's website for core TfW routes and only ever get offered TVM (ticket vending machine) collection.

I've certainly received an m-ticket that I have had to activate when buying TfW flow tickets in the past via the Trainline, but appreciated that is different to buying direct from TfW.
On a tangent - The Trainline is interesting because the type of ticket you get sold will depend on the operator who owns the flow for the ticket you are buying, I don't actually think the Trainline get a say in it. The first time I received an m-ticket from them I was a bit confused as I had spent 6 months using them and had gotten used to them using proper e-tickets! (Usual note of yes, normally the Trainline are ripoff merchants with their booking fee - but for m-tickets / e-tickets on the day they don't charge it - and their app is much nicer to use than most of the ToC branded apps!).

 

[Wallsendmag]

I've certainly received an m-ticket that I have had to activate when buying TfW flow tickets in the past via the Trainline, but appreciated that is different to buying direct from TfW.
On a tangent - The Trainline is interesting because the type of ticket you get sold will depend on the operator who owns the flow for the ticket you are buying, I don't actually think the Trainline get a say in it. The first time I received an m-ticket from them I was a bit confused as I had spent 6 months using them and had gotten used to them using proper e-tickets! (Usual note of yes, normally the Trainline are ripoff merchants with their booking fee - but for m-tickets / e-tickets on the day they don't charge it - and their app is much nicer to use than most of the ToC branded apps!).

The flow owner contols the fulfillment method

 

[Hadders]

I've just purchased an Off Peak Day Return ticket using Transpennine Express and selected e-ticket as the fulfilment method.

Despite the warnings that an app is needed to download the ticket I can confirm that this isn't necessary, the confirmation email has a pdf e-ticket attached which I can either display on my phone or print out should I wish to have a hard copy.

I can further confirm that it is possible to purchase a ticket on Transpennine Express without selecting an itinerary so on the e-ticket there is no suggested itinerary given.

 

[Alex27]

I believe GWR will also soon be offering e tickets on MTIS, so a customer can scan a QR code on the TTK and get the option to download to a pdf or 'add to wallet'

 

[Wallsendmag]

I believe GWR will also soon be offering e tickets on MTIS, so a customer can scan a QR code on the TTK and get the option to download to a pdf or 'add to wallet'

Avocet not Mtis

 

[Starmill]

Avocet not Mtis

Indeed. Avanti have been offering this at ticket offices for a couple of years.

 

[Alex27]

Avocet not Mtis

My Mistake, I did know that

 

[All Line Rover]

I believe GWR will also soon be offering e tickets on MTIS, so a customer can scan a QR code on the TTK and get the option to download to a pdf or 'add to wallet'

Sorry to have to ask, but TTK stands for...?

 

[Wallsendmag]

The Ticket Keeper, excellent supplier to work with.

 

[Nicholas43]

ATOS Wordline sites (e.g. GW, TOE, SWR etc.) claim to offer e-tickets but then claim you need to have their app installed ...

The GWR website (when I last used it) falsely stated that you have to download their (dire) app and accept an m-ticket, but in fact they emailed me an honest e-ticket. I took this up with GWR, and got nowhere. A "public affairs manager" replied

We do send customers a copy of their ticket barcode [sic] (via [he means in] P[ortable]D[ocument]F[ormat], as you have mentioned) and this can be printed out and used as a ticket. There are drawbacks to this. Paper tickets are easier to lose than tickets held on a phone. They can also be duplicated and are therefore less secure. [Sigh.] We are also committed to reducing paper tickets as part of our commitment to reducing waste. There are of course also significant numbers of customers who do not have access to a printer. For all of these reasons we believe that using the App and storing your ticket safely on your phone is the best option. Given this we don’t have any current plans to change the wording on our website.
We do however understand that using the App is not the option that everyone prefers, and that some people might want to do both, and we will therefore also continue to send the ticket barcode [sic] by email.

For my own enlightenment, can a forum member explain whether The Ticket Keeper operate the one and only e-ticket database (by arrangement with the Rail Delivery Group?); or are there several competing databases (which would seem a bit wasteful and likely to Go Wrong).

 

[Haywain]

For my own enlightenment, can a forum member explain whether The Ticket Keeper operate the one and only e-ticket database (by arrangement with the Rail Delivery Group?); or are there several competing databases (which would seem a bit wasteful and likely to Go Wrong).

Each supplier generates barcodes which contain a ‘key’ to identify the supplier and show the ticket as genuine. When a ticket is read by a gate or a guard’s scanner that reading is written to a central database which all TOCs can access.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The GWR website (when I last used it) falsely stated that you have to download their (dire) app and accept an m-ticket, but in fact they emailed me an honest e-ticket. I took this up with GWR, and got nowhere. A "public affairs manager" replied

Their reply, as I am sure you know, is just rubbish.
Their tickets used to be restricted to just the app with no pdf being emailed. And so what you saw was just some outdated info on their website that hadn't been updated. Why on earth they needed to come up with that BS response instead of just admitting they missed it, I have no idea!!

 

[alistairlees]

Each supplier generates barcodes which contain a ‘key’ to identify the supplier and show the ticket as genuine. When a ticket is read by a gate or a guard’s scanner that reading is written to a central database which all TOCs can access.

Distributed databases, but otherwise correct.

 

[Argyle 1980]

Until fairly recently GWRs app only issued Mtickets, but since they've seemed to have dumped the old format print at home tickets that they offered for advance tickets only in favour of the newer standard form for any tickets, then they've started attaching one of these pdf tickets into the booking email that can be printed in addition to the ticket still being in the app also.
Incidentally, when booking on GWR actual website (not app) it still has the option to select print at home for advance tickets, yet if you check that box, it just boots you back to the fulfilment options again where you have to check Eticket, thou it does now clearly state an eticket can be either shown or printed.

The GWR app use to be absolutely dire and full of glitches and crash. Though it's still not as fluid as the likes of XCs, it's reliability has now greatly improved and is actually now able to function pretty normally, though trying to NFC tap load the smart card onto it normally is enough to make it crash.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Distributed databases, but otherwise correct.

Distributed connected databases from several different suppliers

 

[Nicholas43]

Distributed connected databases from several different suppliers

Cor! Is that why GWR management, apparently, don't trust the system to detect multiple use of one e-ticket?