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Conwy Valley Line - Now Reopened

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GCRS

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It seems that the Conwy Valley line is flooded again. The 1457 left Blaenau today, but everything since has been cancelled due to "severe flooding". It'll be somewhere near Llanrwst again I guess, but there hasn't been that much rain around here today so hopefully it'll be open again soon.
 
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Kite159

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I know it sounds bad, but if there is ever such a line which seems a good candidate to be closed it is the Conwy Valley, seeing as the A470 runs pretty much alongside the line.

All the time spent repairing the line can't be doing the passenger usage figures much good
 

edwin_m

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I guess it was mainly the need to supply the Trawsfynydd nuclear power station (opened 1965) that kept it open through the Beeching era. I don't know if flooding was a problem in that era though, and if it was whether the railway would have been considered to be reliable enough.
 

ChiefPlanner

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I guess it was mainly the need to supply the Trawsfynydd nuclear power station (opened 1965) that kept it open through the Beeching era. I don't know if flooding was a problem in that era though, and if it was whether the railway would have been considered to be reliable enough.

Think you are probably right about the nuclear flows. Line open now with a 5mph speed on , a drain was the cause I think ....
 

steamybrian

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I know it sounds bad, but if there is ever such a line which seems a good candidate to be closed it is the Conwy Valley, seeing as the A470 runs pretty much alongside the line............

Usually when the railway is closed for flooding then the road is also closed...!!!
The A470 is a narrow twisting road with a (very) steep climb over the hills just north of Blaenau.
 

Bletchleyite

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The road has been shored up and widened, though, and it's usually higher up than the railway.

If the UK was capable of a properly integrated high quality bus service in the railway fares system with a properly integrated timetable, I'd almost (sadly) agree, much as I love the line.

Unfortunately, it isn't. All they'd get is Express Motors' rubbish.
 

Welshman

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Usually when the railway is closed for flooding then the road is also closed...!!!
The A470 is a narrow twisting road with a (very) steep climb over the hills just north of Blaenau.

I'm sorry to disagree, but that is not always the case!

The line is almost adjacent to and only just above the river between Glan Conwy and North Llanrwst and on the approach to Betws-y-coed, and it is these sections which are often flooded. The road, on the other hand, is further away and higher on the eastern bank, and the rrbs often get through with no problem when the line is flooded.

Continuing on the A470, between Dolwyddelan and Blaenau, the Crimea Pass has been improved in the last few years.
 
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snowball

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Indeed the A470 has undergone a series of improvements over the last 25 years and while there are still some bad sections it's nowhere near as bad as it was.
 
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All they'd get is Express Motors' rubbish.
These days Express Motors doesn't provide an even half-decent service "upstream" of Betws-y-Coed. It used to be kind of OK with feasible connections at Blaenau to/from Dolgellau and Porthmadog but cuts by Gwynedd County Council have brought an end to that. Integration with Snowdon Sherpa and other local bus services at Betws-y-Coed has never been good.

As a more than occasional user of the line to get to Dolwyddelan, I find the current train service OK as the final/initial leg of a longer journey. In recent times I or family members have travelled to/from Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Edinburgh, London, Birmingham, Truro, Cardiff, ... . There is significant tourist usage in the summer - I have experienced "standing room only" when boarding at Llandudno Junction. However a train every three hours is too sparse to provide conveniently for many local requirements - e.g. getting from Dolwyddelan to a doctor's appointment in Blaenau or to Llandudno for shopping.

This isn't a plea for more trains, rather a perspective on the complexities of providing decent public transport in one sparsely populated rural area.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think really what it needs is a properly co-ordinated view - a single network with a single fares system and a coordinated timetable with timed, guaranteed connections. Basically the Swiss model or something a bit like it but lower-cost. (The challenges are similar).

For the Conwy Valley, if only one unit can be found for it at present it could well be worth doing something like two-hourly clockface Llandudno to Betws with a bus connection for the lower bit, with a couple of trains per day working through. Ideally though long term a second unit could be found to reinstate the idea of a north west Wales stopping service, which would allow two hourly clockface throughout.

FWIW the biggest thing it throws away is that no service is really timed to allow commuting to Llandudno for a day's work in retail/tourism. It's been like that ever since it went to a single captive unit.
 
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DarloRich

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Usually when the railway is closed for flooding then the road is also closed...!!!
The A470 is a narrow twisting road with a (very) steep climb over the hills just north of Blaenau.

Nothing wrong with the A470. Went along there in the camper van no problem. Very scenic
 

Bletchleyite

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Nothing wrong with the A470. Went along there in the camper van no problem. Very scenic

TBH when I do go that way I very often do train down, bus back up. I do love the barren view from the top of the wonderfully named Crimea Pass almost as much as I love emerging from the tunnel into the moonscape of Blaenau.
 

PaxVobiscum

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Nothing wrong with the A470. Went along there in the camper van no problem. Very scenic

It has not all been improved – I think you may have forgotten about the bit before it crosses the Conway after leaving the A5 just south of Betws. Take a drive through this bit:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.0...4!1sVBx00ar7BCNkCj__lTH6FA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

No fun with HGVs pedestrians and cyclists about. North of Betws, the road through Llanrwst can be amusing at times too.
 

Bletchleyite

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That kind of road is fine with any types of road user about if you are careful and considerate and do not rush. You could, as they say, get a bus through there! :)

Llanrwst can be an issue, yes. Though thinking objectively a Llanrwst bypass would probably be cheaper than keeping the line going.

Though to be fair there doesn't seem to have been any serious damage this time and it's open again. Some of the drainage work done a few years ago should really help here.
 

furnessvale

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If ever the removal of the slate waste tips for aggregate use comes to fruition, they will regret closing the railway (if that happened).
 

PaxVobiscum

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That kind of road is fine with any types of road user about if they too are careful and considerate and do not rush.

Fixed that for you :)

Forgot to mention the motorbikes, but that's more of an A5 and A453 problem. Best one was two police motorcyclists rounding a corner on the wrong side of the road a couple of years ago. :roll:
 
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snowball

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If the Conwy Valley line were closed i'm sure the Ffestiniog Railway would reopen it (possibly after relaying it as narrow gauge).
 

AndrewE

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I feel that the existing sites where aggregate is obtained will cover the requirements for it for many a long year, without the need to use any of the slate waste tips in that area.

Given that there is not a limitless supply of stone in England (so lots of hard rock aggregate has to be brought by sea from Scotland and Norway then moved overland to where it is needed) I would have thought that for simple "fill" that only needs to be compacted under embankments etc, it can only be a matter of time before the export of slate waste by rail becomes viable, especially if extraction tax on aggregate is increased.
 
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Bald Rick

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Given that there is not a limitless supply of stone in England (so lots of hard rock aggregate has to be brought by sea from Scotland and Norway then moved overland to where it is needed) I would have thought that for simple "fill" that only needs to be compacted under embankments etc, it can only be a matter of time before the export of slate waste by rail becomes viable, especially if extraction tax on aggregate is increased.

A notable proportion of fill used now is recycled aggregate, not least used ballast. It will be a long, long time, if ever, that the costs necessary to get that branch into shape for regular heavy freight would make recovering the slate viable.
 

Robertj21a

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These days Express Motors doesn't provide an even half-decent service "upstream" of Betws-y-Coed. It used to be kind of OK with feasible connections at Blaenau to/from Dolgellau and Porthmadog but cuts by Gwynedd County Council have brought an end to that. Integration with Snowdon Sherpa and other local bus services at Betws-y-Coed has never been good.

As a more than occasional user of the line to get to Dolwyddelan, I find the current train service OK as the final/initial leg of a longer journey. In recent times I or family members have travelled to/from Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Edinburgh, London, Birmingham, Truro, Cardiff, ... . There is significant tourist usage in the summer - I have experienced "standing room only" when boarding at Llandudno Junction. However a train every three hours is too sparse to provide conveniently for many local requirements - e.g. getting from Dolwyddelan to a doctor's appointment in Blaenau or to Llandudno for shopping.

This isn't a plea for more trains, rather a perspective on the complexities of providing decent public transport in one sparsely populated rural area.

I'm guessing that many of the (few) bus services in that whole region have to be supported by Gwynedd C C - not sure that Express Motors can have much that is wholly commercial.
 

bigbadhenry

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I'm guessing that many of the (few) bus services in that whole region have to be supported by Gwynedd C C - not sure that Express Motors can have much that is wholly commercial.

I am lead to believe that that Express X1 is not supported by Conwy/Gwynedd councils. When it first started operating Arriva trains Wales complained about the buses being free to local OAP's.
The WAG then allowed OAP's to use there bus pass on the trains. From what I've seen lots of passengers prefer the bus to the train.
 
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PHILIPE

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Trains are having to run at reduced speed today between North Llanrwst and Llandudno Jn due to overrunning Engineering Work, with delay of up to 25 minutes. All I can think of is that Network Rail were working overnight and didn't quite finish the job.
 

PHILIPE

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Line closed again between Llanrwst North and Blaenau Ffestiniog since yesterday afternoon. There are problems at 2 locations and following heavy rain, the track is flooded at Roman Bridge and also at Ffestiniog Tunnel where water ingress has damaged the lining of the tunnel. At the moment it is estimated the line will not re-open before start of play on Monday, but this can also slip further.
 

PaxVobiscum

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I’m not surprised - the rain in the area was something else yesterday. I was very nearly marooned myself by flooding of the Afon Machno, one of the Afon Conwy tributaries. First time I’ve had water splashing up over the windscreen and roof of the MPV I drive even though I was going very slowly. Scary stuff.
 

CambrianCoast

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I'm guessing that many of the (few) bus services in that whole region have to be supported by Gwynedd C C - not sure that Express Motors can have much that is wholly commercial.

The X1 service is run on a commercial basis with no subsidy other than that provided when used by the all-Wales concessionary travel pass holders hence why Express Motors reduced services from Blaenau to profit from the more lucrative / populated areas north of Betws y Coed. The majority of the X1 service operates within the Conwy County Borough LA boundary, bar Blaenau Ffestiniog which is the only section in Gwynedd.

These days Express Motors doesn't provide an even half-decent service "upstream" of Betws-y-Coed. It used to be kind of OK with feasible connections at Blaenau to/from Dolgellau and Porthmadog but cuts by Gwynedd County Council have brought an end to that. Integration with Snowdon Sherpa and other local bus services at Betws-y-Coed has never been good.

As a more than occasional user of the line to get to Dolwyddelan, I find the current train service OK as the final/initial leg of a longer journey. In recent times I or family members have travelled to/from Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Edinburgh, London, Birmingham, Truro, Cardiff, ... . There is significant tourist usage in the summer - I have experienced "standing room only" when boarding at Llandudno Junction. However a train every three hours is too sparse to provide conveniently for many local requirements - e.g. getting from Dolwyddelan to a doctor's appointment in Blaenau or to Llandudno for shopping.

This isn't a plea for more trains, rather a perspective on the complexities of providing decent public transport in one sparsely populated rural area.
 

Bletchleyite

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There's actually an argument for fewer trains (perhaps only a couple running the full branch), a higher frequency north of Betws, and a proper integration with bus services in the area. The potential is massive, the implementation is awful.
 
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