Coombe Junction reversal. Is it unique?

[Chris Butler]

On the Liskead to Looe branch most trains reverse at Coombe Junction. Two trains a day in each direction go the 200m or so past the junction to Coombe Junction Halt and reverse there. However, all other trains reverse at the junction and do not go to Coombe Junction Halt. The guard operates the ground frame. In those cases the train therefore reverses at a location which is not a station.

Is there anywhere else in the UK where normal passeger services (not charters or specials or diversionary or emergency workings) reverse at a location that is not a station ?

 

[MichaelAMW]

Some trains from Nottingham to Lincoln (or vice versa) call at both Castle and Northgate in Newark, which needs a reversal near the flat crossing.

 

[Surreytraveller]

London to Brighton trains if running via Lewes reverse beyond the station, although probably exempt from your question because that only happens during engineering works

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The 1713 Mon-Sat Kyle of Lochalsh-Elgin service reverses at Welch's Bridge Junction to approach Inverness, having taken the 'third' side of the triangle to avoid it initially.

 

[Welshman]

Occasionally, when there is a block between Bradford Interchange-Halifax-Mirfield-Wakefield Kirkgate, Grand Central services from Bradford Interchange go via Leeds West Junction, reversing there from the Bradford line to the Wakefield Westgate line, thence through Westgate to Kirkgate.

 

[Chris Butler]

Some trains from Nottingham to Lincoln (or vice versa) call at both Castle and Northgate in Newark, which needs a reversal near the flat crossing.

Thanks. Have I got it right ? A Nottingham to Lincoln will

1. call at Castle,
2. cross the ECML, reverse on the running line, take a crossover and then take the chord into Northgate,
3. reverse again (in the station) and then take the chord in the opposite direction to go on to Lincoln.

 

[Chris Butler]

The 1713 Mon-Sat Kyle of Lochalsh-Elgin service reverses at Welch's Bridge Junction to approach Inverness, having taken the 'third' side of the triangle to avoid it initially.

Thanks. Looking at the track atlas, the only other way would be to reverse in platform 5. Is that an option ? If so, do you know why it reverses outside the station ?

 

[LordCreed]

1M79 21:46 Reading to Birmingham New Street reverses at Foxhall Jn for route retention.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C76726/2018/09/03/advanced

 

[Esker-pades]

Thanks. Looking at the track atlas, the only other way would be to reverse in platform 5. Is that an option ? If so, do you know why it reverses outside the station ?

It does it so that there is a regular passenger service over the chord. It then reverses again in Inverness.

 

[Tomnick]

Thanks. Have I got it right ? A Nottingham to Lincoln will

1. call at Castle,
2. cross the ECML, reverse on the running line, take a crossover and then take the chord into Northgate,
3. reverse again (in the station) and then take the chord in the opposite direction to go on to Lincoln.

Yes, spot on.

Thanks. Looking at the track atlas, the only other way would be to reverse in platform 5. Is that an option ? If so, do you know why it reverses outside the station ?

Reversing in platform 5 isn't an option - the only connection from there to the east is through a siding and worked by a ground frame, and I'm not even sure that there's room for a unit to stand clear anyway.

 

[Esker-pades]

Yes, spot on.


Reversing in platform 5 isn't an option - the only connection from there to the east is through a siding and worked by a ground frame, and I'm not even sure that there's room for a unit to stand clear anyway.

It is possible in theory. But, the reason it reverses at Welshes Bridge is to maintain route knowledge and to have a regular passenger service over the chord.

 

[Chris Butler]

1M79 21:46 Reading to Birmingham New Street reverses at Foxhall Jn for route retention.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C76726/2018/09/03/advanced

Now that is a niche working ! Thanks.

 

[InOban]

Thanks. Looking at the track atlas, the only other way would be to reverse in platform 5. Is that an option ? If so, do you know why it reverses outside the station ?

The section of platform 5 with access in both directions is very short. In days of steam it could be used to release the engine, but no more.

 

[Scotrail84]

The sleeper when going east coast could maybe be included. A reversal in a freight yard at Wembley

 

[6Gman]

The 1713 Mon-Sat Kyle of Lochalsh-Elgin service reverses at Welch's Bridge Junction to approach Inverness, having taken the 'third' side of the triangle to avoid it initially.

That is a very long-standing move. I can remember doing it with a Class 26!

 

[edwin_m]

When there were loco-hauled CrossCountry services with Glasgow and Edinburgh portions splitting/joining at Carstairs, an arrival from Edinburgh would sometimes be hauled out of the station towards Glasgow then propelled onto the back of the Glasgow portion in the other platform.

 

[30907]

That is a very long-standing move. I can remember doing it with a Class 26!

IIRC it was to allow convenient cross-platform interchange for the mails (rather than pax!) and a northbound Highland train did the equivalent, reversing into the Far North side.

 

[Edgeley]

Battersby on the Middlesbrough - Whitby line has a resemblance to the Coombe Junction scenario but doesn't meet your criterion as I believe all services call at the station. Arguably the settlement wouldn't merit a station if it wasn't a reversal point, however!

 

[alangla]

When there were loco-hauled CrossCountry services with Glasgow and Edinburgh portions splitting/joining at Carstairs, an arrival from Edinburgh would sometimes be hauled out of the station towards Glasgow then propelled onto the back of the Glasgow portion in the other platform.

The sleeper still does this - it runs from Edinburgh into the up loop IIRC then, after the Glasgow portion arrives, reverses onto the rear & couples

 

[Scotrail84]

The sleeper still does this - it runs from Edinburgh into the up loop IIRC then, after the Glasgow portion arrives, reverses onto the rear & couples

Yes, southbound only. It’s a rare move not often seen by the public unless they’re on the train or actually on Carstairs platform at 00:15ish.

 

[Scotrail84]

Dalmeny junction is another place where reversals take place for access to the winchburgh curve, admittedly this usually only happens during engineering works. There used to be a route retention service that went this way every week day with a driver and guard on on it, ran from Edinburgh to carmuirs West jn where it would turn and go back the same way to Edinburgh. No idea if it still runs now though.

 

[TheBigD]

Both the 0515 Stansted - Birmingham & 1922 Birmingham - Stansted Mondays y to Fridays reverse at the crossover just north of Stansted Mountfitchet Station.

Done purely for route retention purposes for Cambridge XC traincrew.

 

[Bayum]

1M79 21:46 Reading to Birmingham New Street reverses at Foxhall Jn for route retention.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C76726/2018/09/03/advanced

So the voyager gets to Foxhall Junction, stops, driver jumps off to the other side of the train and then heads off? I can imagine the passengers wondering what on earth is happening

 

[Scotrail84]

So the voyager gets to Foxhall Junction, stops, driver jumps off to the other side of the train and then heads off? I can imagine the passengers wondering what on earth is happening

Punters tend not to bother as long as they get to their destination on time.

 

[Surreytraveller]

So the voyager gets to Foxhall Junction, stops, driver jumps off to the other side of the train and then heads off? I can imagine the passengers wondering what on earth is happening

Passengers tend not to pay any attention to the running of the train, and are unlikely to notice. Especially if its dark outside

 

[Bayum]

Passengers tend not to pay any attention to the running of the train, and are unlikely to notice. Especially if its dark outside

Not notice or ignore? I think most people would notice their train travelling in a different direction than it was omentd ago.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I suspect the Coombe Jcn reversal by all but two trains is unique in that there is a recognised station kind of begging to be stopped at IYSWIM just 30 seconds from the point of reversal. None of the examples mentioned replicate this bizarre feature.

In this context, Battersby is probably a sort of 'near miss', but since there were platforms there, and an open station anyway, it's kind of easier to work it this way than close the place.

Other non-station reversals no longer with us include Sheff Vic to Sheff Midland (didn't the Huddersfield-Penistone locals reverse at .... Nunnery? Jcn when Victoria first closed?), and, of course, that absolutely delightful dinosaur palava of working arrangments at Templecombe, to and from the S&D to the L&SW station.

EDIT: Slightly OT - and I suspect it has been asked before somewhere - but what IS the justification for not stopping all trains at Coombe Jcn Halt? I mean, does the time saved ( would it amount to 60 seconds?) count THAT much? And the fuel? (Immeasurable, one would imagine.) Off set by the increased revenues from a few (20? 40? 100?) extra passengers a year by doing so?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The boat trains to/from Folkestone Harbour used to reverse in a fan of sidings by the main line in order to access the Harbour branch.

 

[70014IronDuke]

The boat trains to/from Folkestone Harbour used to reverse in a fan of sidings by the main line in order to access the Harbour branch.

Not sure if it makes Folkestone unique, but didn't they have staff 'platforms' (narrow at that) there so the driver didn't need to actually walk in the six foot? I don't think they have such facilities when reversing at, say, Newark, BICBW.

 

[edwin_m]

I suspect the Coombe Jcn reversal by all but two trains is unique in that there is a recognised station kind of begging to be stopped at IYSWIM just 30 seconds from the point of reversal. None of the examples mentioned replicate this bizarre feature.

The train has to stop twice at the ground frame anyway so the guard can set and restore the points. Stopping at the station too would add an extra stop, or could possibly be achieved by the guard walking to/from the frame but that would probably take longer than the stop avoided. It appears the train is permitted to move the short distance across the points without the guard on board, something that is probably unique without the equipment normally needed for DOO.

Other non-station reversals no longer with us include Sheff Vic to Sheff Midland (didn't the Huddersfield-Penistone locals reverse at .... Nunnery? Jcn when Victoria first closed?)

Yes, Huddersfield-Sheffield reversed at Nunnery Junction until the service was re-routed via Barnsley, sometime in the 80s I guess.