Corbyn sacks former leadership rival over Brexit claims

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aformeruser

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Owen Smith said:
Just been sacked by @jeremycorbyn for my long held views on the damage #Brexit will do to the Good Friday Agreement & the economy of the entire U.K. Those views are shared by Labour members & supporters and I will continue to speak up for them, and in the interest of our country.
https://twitter.com/OwenSmith_MP

I'm pretty sure someone appointed as Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary should be speaking out about the dangers of Brexit to Northern Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement, given most of those on the government benches are pushing for Brexit to go ahead.
 
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I'm pretty sure someone appointed as Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary should be speaking out about the dangers of Brexit to Northern Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement, given most of those on the government benches are pushing for Brexit to go ahead.
And also pointing out that Northern Ireland, like Scotland, voted to Remain — not that you'd believe it from the noise made by the DUP MPs keeping May in power and making no attempt whatsoever to represent the decision of their element of the union.
 

Busaholic

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Now Jeremy's leader no dissent is allowed. If I thought he'd understand its meaning I'd recommend a reading of 'Animal Farm.'
 

AlterEgo

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https://twitter.com/OwenSmith_MP

I'm pretty sure someone appointed as Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary should be speaking out about the dangers of Brexit to Northern Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement, given most of those on the government benches are pushing for Brexit to go ahead.
Labour don’t even stand candidates in Northern Ireland, therefore they cannot claim to speak on behalf of the people there. Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary - an inconsequential post if ever there was one.

Labour under Corbyn would be seen as no more an impartial guarantor of the peace as May’s Tories anyway.
 

TheNewNo2

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Unsurprising. Corbyn is pro-Brexit, he just doesn't have the courage to come out and say it because he knows the majority of his party hate it.

Under the Tories we're ****ed.
Under Labour we'd also be ****ed.
Under the Lib Dems we'd still be ****ed.
May as well just vote BNP and have done with it.
 

Geezertronic

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Unsurprising. Corbyn is pro-Brexit, he just doesn't have the courage to come out and say it because he knows the majority of his party hate it.

Under the Tories we're ****ed.
Under Labour we'd also be ****ed.
Under the Lib Dems we'd still be ****ed.
May as well just vote BNP and have done with it.
Depends who would **** you more. In my case, Labour have always ****ed me more than Conservative. Lib Dems are a waste of time, voting BNP is just plain stupid - you'd be better off voting UKIP :)
 

Bromley boy

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https://twitter.com/OwenSmith_MP

I'm pretty sure someone appointed as Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary should be speaking out about the dangers of Brexit to Northern Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement, given most of those on the government benches are pushing for Brexit to go ahead.
There really is absolutely nothing we agree on. :D

As far as I’m concerned, Corbyn’s one saving grace is that he’s pro-Brexit. As for Owen Smith he must be the biggest waste of oxygen to ever don a suit, let alone become an MP. A pathetic, inconsequential shadow of a man with all the intellectual gravitas of a media studies teacher. He deserves everything he gets.

After Smith’s damp squib of a leadership bid Corbyn understandably shunted him into an irrelevant siding, no doubt still paying a cushy salary. Even in this, much diminished, state this latest outburst reveals that Smith evidently lacks the basic intelligence or instinct for self preservation to avoid biting the hand that feeds.

I sincerely hope Corbyn remains in situ for the time being and follows his true beliefs. At least until we’ve gone far enough down the Brexit process to make leaving completely irreversible.

I don’t think we’re quite there yet, but getting closer by the day.
 
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Bromley boy

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Please give some examples of those "true beliefs" that you mention above.
I should have said “true belief”, singular, in terms of leaving the EU.

I generally can’t stand the bloke.
In particular I completely reject his beliefs endorsing anti Semitism, Hamas, Marxism etc., of which there are many!

His view endorsing Brexit I find myself in agreement with. I’m not endorsing the website I’ve quoted from below, but the quotes seem accurate, and it’s late so cut me some slack :

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/
  • Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.
  • Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993.
  • Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.
  • In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.
  • Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).
  • In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)
  • Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
  • In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
  • Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attackedgovernment ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.
 
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aformeruser

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There really is absolutely nothing we agree on. :D

As far as I’m concerned, Corbyn’s one saving grace is that he’s pro-Brexit. As for Owen Smith he must be the biggest waste of oxygen to ever don a suit, let alone become an MP. A pathetic, inconsequential shadow of a man with all the intellectual gravitas of a media studies teacher. He deserves everything he gets.

After Smith’s damp squib of a leadership bid Corbyn understandably shunted him into an irrelevant siding, no doubt still paying a cushy salary. Even in this, much diminished, state this latest outburst reveals that Smith evidently lacks the basic intelligence or instinct for self preservation to avoid biting the hand that feeds.

I sincerely hope Corbyn remains in situ for the time being and follows his true beliefs. At least until we’ve gone far enough down the Brexit process to make leaving completely irreversible.

I don’t think we’re quite there yet, but getting closer by the day.
So basically you're saying as Corbyn is pro-Brexit he can follow his personal beliefs and ignore the wishes of those who he represents in parliament, yet as Smith isn't you're saying he should get lost. Now we know you believe a dictatorship is OK as long as the dictator is initially voted in.

You also seem to be forgetting it wasn't Owen Smith who started the challenge for the Labour leadership, it was Angela Eagle. If Smith hadn't come forward with his ideals that sit between 'New Labour' and Corbyn's then Ms Eagle could have become Labour leader with Labour shifting back to the centre. Those who are left-wing pro-Corbyn should be grateful that Smith putting his name forward made Eagle decide to not stand for leader.
 

aformeruser

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Labour don’t even stand candidates in Northern Ireland, therefore they cannot claim to speak on behalf of the people there. Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary - an inconsequential post if ever there was one.
I agree it's a dubious position but both the Conservatives and Labour know that they can't ignore Northern Ireland even if none of their MPs directly represent Northern Ireland. Even more so in the case of Labour given the DUP (who have a different view on Brexit than the majority of voters in NI) are propping up the Conservatives.
 

jon0844

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I was at a lunch earlier this week and one of the people attending who works for the Daily Mail (don't ask - it's a long story) was saying they're working on a story that links Corbyn/Labour to the Cambridge Analytica scandal. (Momentum perhaps?)

He wouldn't elaborate and I don't know any more details, but I am sure we'll find out in the coming days - assuming there hasn't already been anything published?

Naturally, as it's the Mail you'd have to turn your cynical mode on.
 

gareth950

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I was at a lunch earlier this week and one of the people attending who works for the Daily Mail (don't ask - it's a long story) was saying they're working on a story that links Corbyn/Labour to the Cambridge Analytica scandal. (Momentum perhaps?)

He wouldn't elaborate and I don't know any more details, but I am sure we'll find out in the coming days - assuming there hasn't already been anything published?

Naturally, as it's the Mail you'd have to turn your cynical mode on.
So in other words, it will be a load of made up, fake news bull****, just like the Corbyn Soviet spy allegations were a few weeks back.
Just what the Mail excels and specialises in.
 

jon0844

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So in other words, it will be a load of made up, fake news bull****, just like the Corbyn Soviet spy allegations were a few weeks back.
Just what the Mail excels and specialises in.
I have no idea. Maybe there will be some truth though, as Momentum can probably attribute a lot of its success and influence on social media activity.
 

90sWereBetter

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This, along with the whole Russia business and the latest antisemitic scandal that broke yesterday (look at the abuse Luciana Berger's getting on Twitter just for pointing it out) is the last straw for me. I've voted Labour at every election since 2013, but I'm not seeing why I should continue. The party and Momentum have made it pretty clear that mine and other so-called "Blairites" votes aren't wanted and that we should all "f*** off and join the Tories" and I've had enough of it. Good luck trying to win an election without our votes.

The chances of a new Gang of Four have increased a fair bit I'd imagine.
 

aformeruser

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This, along with the whole Russia business and the latest antisemitic scandal that broke yesterday (look at the abuse Luciana Berger's getting on Twitter just for pointing it out) is the last straw for me. I've voted Labour at every election since 2013, but I'm not seeing why I should continue. The party and Momentum have made it pretty clear that mine and other so-called "Blairites" votes aren't wanted and that we should all "f*** off and join the Tories" and I've had enough of it. Good luck trying to win an election without our votes.

The chances of a new Gang of Four have increased a fair bit I'd imagine.
The best Labour can hope for at the moment is a hung parliament where they can agree a pact/coalition with either the SNP or the Lib Dems. Although, agreeing one with the SNP could harm Labour's changes of winning back seats from the SNP in Scotland, while the Lib Dems aren't going to work with a party led by someone who sacks people who speak out against Brexit.
 

gareth950

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This, along with the whole Russia business and the latest antisemitic scandal that broke yesterday (look at the abuse Luciana Berger's getting on Twitter just for pointing it out) is the last straw for me. I've voted Labour at every election since 2013, but I'm not seeing why I should continue. The party and Momentum have made it pretty clear that mine and other so-called "Blairites" votes aren't wanted and that we should all "f*** off and join the Tories" and I've had enough of it. Good luck trying to win an election without our votes.

The chances of a new Gang of Four have increased a fair bit I'd imagine.
I'm a Labour 'moderate' as well, but what are the alternatives? The Lib Dems or the SNP or Plaid Cymru, none of which can form governments at Westminster alone.
Or just not vote at all, which doesn't achieve anything.
 

jon0844

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We're pretty screwed and so much of this comes down to Brexit. It matters not what the outcome is, because nobody knew what they wanted so nobody will be happy, but it certainly matters what has happened to our country as a whole.

People are now showing sheer hatred towards one another, and it's coming from both left and right. There's no middle ground. Nobody can talk freely and discuss opposing views and possibly even see both sides to an argument or consider compromise.

Labour has for many years had members just repeat over and over the Tories are scum. Naturally the far left love this, but it's as predictable and shallow as the RMT saying 'renationalise the railway'. The Tories meanwhile seem to be saying nothing at all about how to run the country as all their time is taken up with Brexit negotiations. Has the whole country gone on pause mode or something? Are we in a state of limbo until we leave? The way the media covers politics, you'd be excused for thinking so.

It wasn't perfect, but the coalition Government felt like a Government that was trying to improve things and actually listen to people (and the LibDems had enough power to hold the Tories back on a lot of things).
 

aformeruser

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I'm a Labour 'moderate' as well, but what are the alternatives? The Lib Dems or the SNP or Plaid Cymru, none of which can form governments at Westminster alone.
Or just not vote at all, which doesn't achieve anything.
The SNP or Plaid Cymru can't form a government alone because they don't put forward enough candidates. In theory the Lib Dems, UKIP or the Greens could but it would need a large number of people to change how they vote. At the last election there was a lot of tactical voting - in Labour's favour, but not much tactical voting in favour of other parties. The result of that is while Labour may have won seats like Sheffield Hallam, it allowed the Conservatives to take Southport from the Lib Dems and allowed the Conservatives to win marginals like Cheadle and Hazel Grove, which tactical voting by Labour supporters could have prevented and could have helped make Labour the party with the most MPs instead of the Conservatives.
 

Bromley boy

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So basically you're saying as Corbyn is pro-Brexit he can follow his personal beliefs and ignore the wishes of those who he represents in parliament, yet as Smith isn't you're saying he should get lost. Now we know you believe a dictatorship is OK as long as the dictator is initially voted in.
I’m saying Corbyn’s personal views accord with mine in this area so I’m glad he’s tacitly supporting the leave camp, which as we know was the victorious side in the referendum.

It’s the persistent attempts by remainers to undermine the democratically determined will of the people that are reminiscent of a dictatorship.

You also seem to be forgetting it wasn't Owen Smith who started the challenge for the Labour leadership, it was Angela Eagle. If Smith hadn't come forward with his ideals that sit between 'New Labour' and Corbyn's then Ms Eagle could have become Labour leader with Labour shifting back to the centre. Those who are left-wing pro-Corbyn should be grateful that Smith putting his name forward made Eagle decide to not stand for leader.
Those who aren’t necessarily left wing or pro Corbyn but who are pro Brexit are grateful Eagle didn’t win. It doesn’t change the fact Smith is an absolute lightweight and that the Labour Party is now a pathetic shadow of its former self.
 

jon0844

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Corbyn should be honest and say he supports leaving, and quite likely voted leave himself.

At the moment he is trying to seem friendly to leavers and remainers.
 

aformeruser

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It’s the persistent attempts by remainers to undermine the democratically determined will of the people that are reminiscent of a dictatorship.
51.8% of people voted for Brexit (after a number of lies were circulated by politicians ahead of the referendum.) That was a referendum to advise the government of the public opinion, not a legally binding referendum. If David Cameron had gone back to the EU and said "Look 51.8% voted to leave, that's not a big majority, do you want to offer them more concessions to see if they change their mind" then it would not have been undemocratic.

The way Brexit is being handled is undemocratic though. The Conservatives (who don't even have a majority in Westminster) tried to block politicians voting on the final Brexit deal and after they didn't get their way David Davies has said MPs will accept the deal negotiated by the Conservatives or we'll leave without one - there's no option for going back to get a better deal.
 
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