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Coronavirus and running

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Sammy2019

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Hi

Probably a random question but earlier I was out running on a pavement wide enough that two people could walk on when someone was walking towards me. She started shouting at me and demanded that I cross the road.

I asked who had put her in charge and stated that she clearly knew she was taking a risk when she left her house and carried on running past her.

The Question is was I the one in the wrong or are people taking this whole thing way too far and is really bringing out the worst in some people?
 
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Bald Rick

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Hi

Probably a random question but earlier I was out running on a pavement wide enough that two people could walk on when someone was walking towards me. She started shouting at me and demanded that I cross the road.

I asked who had put her in charge and stated that she clearly knew she was taking a risk when she left her house and carried on running past her.

The Question is was I the one in the wrong or are people taking this whole thing way too far and is really bringing out the worst in some people?

Some research was published yesterday that suggests that when running you need to keep much further apart than 2m. Various media reported it, here is runners world’s take:

 
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I think you were almost certainly in the wrong because:
1. Regardless of your own attitude to risk, once this (novel) virus is passed on debating transmisson probablilities with the recipient is rather pointless. The harm is done. Many people are understandably rather worried about it
2. You were probably more capable of taking action to maximise social distance.
3. You presented an argument when the other person felt uncomfortable. The corect response in these circumstances is to apologise and learn fom the experience.
 

Bletchleyite

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That study has been widely discredited as not actually a study and not following scientific methods.

For example:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...spreading-coronavirus-is-not-actually-a-study

(Silly question, how did you do that link with summary?)

That said, there is the question - were you able to remain two metres apart? If not, then one person would need to move, and it's usually the convention that the "faster" person is the one that moves - a cyclist moves to accommodate a runner (on shared paths), a runner moves to accommodate a pedestrian, an able bodied person moves to accommodate a disabled person.

So, in other words, I'd have crossed the road well before getting near her if the other pavement was unoccupied.
 

Domh245

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Bit of both I'd say - you should have done more to avoid her, but equally her going off on one and starting shouting isn't exactly doing favours either, and it does (sadly) seem to be the case that this is bringing out the worst in people in a variety of ways
 

Sammy2019

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I think you were almost certainly in the wrong because:
1. Regardless of your own attitude to risk, once this (novel) virus is passed on debating transmisson probablilities with the recipient is rather pointless. The harm is done. Many people are understandably rather worried about it
2. You were probably more capable of taking action to maximise social distance.
3. You presented an argument when the other person felt uncomfortable. The corect response in these circumstances is to apologise and learn fom the experience.

I totally get all that. I just don’t see how me running past someone at a reasonable distance for a split second is going to transmit a virus that I haven’t got. Pretty sure if I had the virus I wouldn’t be able to run I would be bed bound struggling to breathe. Then again that’s just my opinion. I probably won’t bother running again if it’s going to cause aggro more hassle than it’s worth.
 

Bletchleyite

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I totally get all that. I just don’t see how me running past someone at a reasonable distance for a split second is going to transmit a virus that I haven’t got. Pretty sure if I had the virus I wouldn’t be able to run I would be bed bound struggling to breathe. Then again that’s just my opinion. I probably won’t bother running again if it’s going to cause aggro more hassle than it’s worth.

You've been asked to stay at least 2m from people you don't live with at all times. If you aren't considerate enough to put the effort into doing that (and it does require a different style of running, certainly) then I would suggest you stay at home, yes.

It's a style of running that's more like defensive motorway driving than ducking in and out of people - watching ahead and planning how you're going to ensure you will give other people as wide a berth as possible while still keeping moving (but accepting you may need to stop for a bit).

You do not know you don't have the virus as you can have it asymptomatically, either because symptoms haven't developed yet or because you won't get any. You could also catch it yourself, and while you may be low-risk it could still whack you for six, or you could spread it to family at home.
 

Tetchytyke

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If you aren't considerate enough to put the effort into doing that (and it does require a different style of running, certainly) then I would suggest you stay at home, yes.

Consideration works both ways, though; there's nothing to stop her crossing the road if she feels that strongly about it.

I generally try to avoid people and abide by the suggested distance when I'm walking and cycling. I'll check before crossing the road to make sure there's nobody on the opposite path, that sort of thing. Common courtesy.

But it's not always possible. And someone screaming at me to cross the road (why can't they, are they too important?) is most likely to bring out my belligerent side!
 

Bletchleyite

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Consideration works both ways, though; there's nothing to stop her crossing the road if she feels that strongly about it.

I refer you to my view above which is that it should be the faster person who puts the effort into taking the evasive action (on the assumption that the pavement was less than 2m wide, which is likely as most pavements are only about 1-1.5m wide). This is how I run and cycle.
 
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I totally get all that. I just don’t see how me running past someone at a reasonable distance for a split second is going to transmit a virus that I haven’t got. Pretty sure if I had the virus I wouldn’t be able to run I would be bed bound struggling to breathe. Then again that’s just my opinion. I probably won’t bother running again if it’s going to cause aggro more hassle than it’s worth.
I agree the chances are miniscule. You'd need to be carrying the virus and also able to run, spluttering at the exact moment you passed this person or spitting into their face. Then again, they weren't to know that you wouldn't be doing that, just by accident. Nobody really knows all the risks for sure, so it's probably wise to err on the side of caution for the time being. If chief medical officers can pick this thing up I can see how many people might be rather alarmed.
 

tony_mac

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Pretty sure if I had the virus I wouldn’t be able to run I would be bed bound struggling to breathe.
That is the problem - it's completely wrong. How do you really know you haven't got it? - most people don't have any symptoms for a few days at least, and many never have any at all.
And how is anyone else supposed to know you haven't got it?
Viruses can be passed without physical contact; while the risk when passing one person is very small, if you are passed by many people a day, the risk adds up. Even if you are ok with it, why should you force a stranger to take a risk that they obviously don't want to take?

Maybe you should just find somewhere to run where you can stay away from other people?
 

6Gman

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I totally get all that. I just don’t see how me running past someone at a reasonable distance for a split second is going to transmit a virus that I haven’t got. Pretty sure if I had the virus I wouldn’t be able to run I would be bed bound struggling to breathe. Then again that’s just my opinion. I probably won’t bother running again if it’s going to cause aggro more hassle than it’s worth.

1. It is possible to have no symptoms but still carry - and transmit - the virus.
2. In the early (and infectious) stage it would still be possible to run.
 

Tetchytyke

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I refer you to my view above which is that it should be the faster person who puts the effort into taking the evasive action

I don't disagree with you in principle, in the same way the faster skier is supposed to go round the slower one. Although, on the same bat, if you're the person more obsessed with the 2m guidelines, crossing the road rather than screaming blue murder might be more effective for you.

I can't be alone in being much less cooperative with rude people!
 
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I can't be alone in being much less cooperative with rude people!
Indeed. Whenever I'm enjoying a cigarette down the pub and anyone objects, I make sure I exhale smoke directly into their face. There's no clear scientific evidence I'm doing them any harm, they're free to move away any time they want, and surely they knew the risks before leaving their own house. I've no time for such fools.
 

scotrail158713

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Indeed. Whenever I'm enjoying a cigarette down the pub and anyone objects, I make sure I exhale smoke directly into their face. There's no clear scientific evidence I'm doing them any harm, they're free to move away any time they want, and surely they knew the risks before leaving their own house. I've no time for such fools.
Seriously? No scientific evidence? Here’s what the NHS say...
Secondhand smoke is dangerous, especially for children. The best way to protect loved ones is to quit smoking. At the very least, make sure you have a smokefree home and car.

When you smoke a cigarette (or roll-up, pipe or cigar), most of the smoke doesn't go into your lungs, it goes into the air around you where anyone nearby can breathe it in.

Secondhand smoke is the smoke that you exhale plus the "sidestream" smoke created by the lit end of your cigarette.

When friends and family breathe in your secondhand smoke – what we call passive smoking – it isn't just unpleasant for them, it can damage their health too.

People who breathe in secondhand smoke regularly are more likely to get the same diseases as smokers, including lung cancerand heart disease.

Pregnant women exposed to passive smoke are more prone to premature birth and their baby is more at risk of low birthweight and cot death.

And children who live in a smoky house are at higher risk of breathing problems, asthma, and allergies.

How to protect against secondhand smoke
The only way to protect your friends and family from secondhand smoke is to keep the environment around them smoke free.

The best way to do that is to quit smoking completely. If you're not ready to quit, make every effort to keep your cigarette smoke away from other people and never smoke indoors or in the car.

You should:

  • always smoke outside
  • ask your visitors to smoke outside
  • not smoke in the car or allow anyone else to
Take steps NOW to stop smoking.

The risks of passive smoking
Secondhand smoke is a lethal cocktail of more than 4,000 irritants, toxins and cancer-causing substances.

Most secondhand smoke is invisible and odourless, so no matter how careful you think you're being, people around you still breathe in the harmful poisons.

Opening windows and doors or smoking in another room in the house doesn't protect people. Smoke can linger in the air for 2 to 3 hours after you've finished a cigarette, even with a window open. Also, even if you limit smoking to one room, the smoke will spread to the rest of the house where people will inhale it.

Children and passive smoking
Passive smoking is especially harmful for children as they have less well-developed airways, lungs and immune systems.

Children who live in a household where at least 1 person smokes are more likely to develop:

Children are particularly vulnerable in the family car where secondhand smoke can reach hazardous levels even with the windows open.

To protect children, a new ban on smoking in cars and other vehicles carrying children was introduced in October 2015. It is now against the law to smoke in a private vehicle if there's a young person under 18 present.

Read about the new law on smoking in private vehicles.

How safe is e-cig vapour?
Smoking e-cigarettes, also known as vaping, doesn't produce tobacco smoke so the risks of passive smoking with conventional cigarettes don't apply to e-cigs.

Research into this area is ongoing, but it seems that e-cigs release negligible amounts of nicotine into the atmosphere and the limited evidence available suggests that any risk from passive vaping to bystanders is small relative to tobacco cigarettes.

In England, the Government has no plans to ban vaping indoors (although some employers have banned them in the workplace) but some health professionals recommend avoiding using them around pregnant women, babies and children.

Read about the safety of e-cigarettes.

Your GP can give you advice about quitting smoking.
 

Belperpete

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Did you consider that the person you were running toward might be particularly vulnerable? As someone who has had a suppressed immune system as a result of chemotherapy, I side entirely with the person you were running toward. You are obliged to maintain 2m separation where possible, and you completely failed to do so. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour. In her position, I would have stopped still, and held my arms out wide, fists clenched, to maintain separation.
 

Aivilo

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You can be asymptomatic (carry and show zero symptoms) so whilst you feel fine you can go on to infect others. The 2m rule is for everyone as a precaution. If you were out running you should've made the effort to take a wife berth
 

the sniper

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I totally get all that. I just don’t see how me running past someone at a reasonable distance for a split second is going to transmit a virus that I haven’t got. Pretty sure if I had the virus I wouldn’t be able to run I would be bed bound struggling to breathe. Then again that’s just my opinion. I probably won’t bother running again if it’s going to cause aggro more hassle than it’s worth.

You haven't got your head around this at all... You're not alone though and the half arsed, typically undisciplined British approach many people in this country are approaching this 'lockdown' with will cost us all over an ever extending period of time.

With regards to running, if it weren't obvious: https://medium.com/@jurgenthoelen/b...alk-run-bike-close-to-each-other-a5df19c77d08

Indeed. Whenever I'm enjoying a cigarette down the pub and anyone objects, I make sure I exhale smoke directly into their face. There's no clear scientific evidence I'm doing them any harm, they're free to move away any time they want, and surely they knew the risks before leaving their own house. I've no time for such fools.

Please tell me you're being sarcastic...?
 

Sammy2019

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Did you consider that the person you were running toward might be particularly vulnerable? As someone who has had a suppressed immune system as a result of chemotherapy, I side entirely with the person you were running toward. You are obliged to maintain 2m separation where possible, and you completely failed to do so. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour. In her position, I would have stopped still, and held my arms out wide, fists clenched, to maintain separation.

no need for your rude response. She could have easily have crossed the road.

She could have stood in front of me and tried to hit me, I wouldn’t have recommended it tho given the size of me she would have gone flying ...
 

the sniper

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She could have stood in front of me and tried to hit me, I wouldn’t have recommended it tho given the size of me she would have gone flying ...

Yeah, you really haven't got your head around this at all... There might be another reason why she wouldn't have done that. :rolleyes:
 

Tetchytyke

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Whenever I'm enjoying a cigarette down the pub and anyone objects, I make sure I exhale smoke directly into their face.

No need to be sarcastic, especially when the sarcasm is nonsensical.

If someone stands next to a smoker, who has to be outdoors anyway, and then moans about smoking, there's an easy solution.
 

Sammy2019

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There seems to be a lot of Sarcastic people on here. If your vulnerable then either don’t go out or YOU can be the one that moves to the other side of the road. Am I expected to cross the road every time I see someone I would be zig zagging all day.

govenrment advice is that vulnerable people should stay in ... perhaps they should stick to the advice rather than shouting and being rude to runners.
 

tony_mac

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If your vulnerable then either don’t go out or YOU can be the one that moves to the other side of the road.
Nice - nothing like us trying to get through a really tough time together...
govenrment advice is that vulnerable people should stay in ... perhaps they should stick to the advice rather than shouting and being rude to runners.
Actually it isn't - that's only for the most vulnerable people.
For very many vulnerable people, some exercise and fresh air is massively useful.
 
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