Coronavirus: Is this the end of physical cash? Will we go completely electronic?

[Qwerty133]

How is this allowed to happen? Is it even legal? Why is my money not acceptable? I would just walk out of the store with my goods if they didn't want my cash. What else could I do? I don't have any cards

Of course it's legal.
If I wanted I could open a shop that only accepted postal orders or 50 pence coins dated 1995 (although I doubt such a business would be viable) as long as I made that clear before the customer enters into the contact which cashless stores clearly do.

 

[telstarbox]

We shouldn't be in the situation where people are relying on passing strangers for their survival whether it's cash or anything else. Agree that people, especially in cities, are increasingly unlikely to use cash at all. I only use cash for the veg market and the swimming pool and hopefully they'll move with the times soon.

 

[sheff1]

I found a £20 note in a pair of shorts last week, and don’t know how I’m going to spend it.

I will be using a £20 note at the Chinese takeaway tomorrow - cards not accepted.

At M&S yesterday, the shopper in front paid a £50+ bill with 3 X £20 notes. I paid by card there, though.

 

[david1212]

Ever seen the look of panic in a Supermarkety, when the 'system' crashes ! LOL then they say, sorry, cash only right now

This has happened to me three times in the last year or so. Once in Aldi, once in Wilko and once in Poundland. The latter, one with no self-service checkouts, the operator had just scanned a large purchase and the system crashed. I just handed over a few coins and left, the same in Wilko. In Aldi the checkouts were fine but the card readers all stopped. They opened a checkout for cash only which then was how I always paid.

 

[najaB]

This has happened to me three times in the last year or so. Once in Aldi, once in Wilko and once in Poundland.

As a counterpoint, it's happened to me once in the last six or seven years, in Blackburn Morrisons.

 

[PG]

This has happened to me three times in the last year or so. Once in Aldi, once in Wilko and once in Poundland. The latter, one with no self-service checkouts, the operator had just scanned a large purchase and the system crashed. I just handed over a few coins and left, the same in Wilko. In Aldi the checkouts were fine but the card readers all stopped. They opened a checkout for cash only which then was how I always paid.

Turning the argument on its head here - if you were buying something online and as you went to enter your payment details the system crashed.
The retailer would not have been paid so wouldn't provide whatever it was that you were attempting to buy.
What makes this any different in a physical shop? - no payment = no goods.
Just because you wish to pay for your goods in cash does not oblige the retailer to accept it.

I believe that goods in shops fall (in contract law) under the definition of an invitation to treat, and that following a judgement made in the case of Pharmaceutical Society of GB v Boots Cash Chemists (Southern) Ltd such an offer is not fulfilled until the retailer has accepted payment. Thus if the retailer refused to accept payment (because its terms were a cashless form of payment and due to a failure of the cashless payment system you were unable to pay) then the contract is frustrated and so nullified.

In practice I suspect (at the present time) that the prospect of adverse publicity might well cause any retailer to opt to (temporarily) accept a cash payment in those circumstances.

 

[jagardner1984]

I wonder whether prepay cards, topped up via cash in some form of reverse ATM type machine, might become more widespread, as running the cash network carries serious costs and a much wider risk of theft / fraud. Contactless readers are very cheap and the percentages charged (tiny in the context of low value transactions).

I’m doing volunteering delivering to the elderly/vulnerable at the moment, and shudder to think how many times I’ve Seen cash clearly visible from the front door as I’m delivering. Sadly I fear not everyone will be visiting simply to drop off a food parcel.

A friend had his wallet stolen a couple of weeks ago. Within an hour or so the bank had clocked unusual contactless transactions, blocked the cards and refunded him.

A cash free or almost cash free society would surely simplify our lives and make the most vulnerable (I include lone working taxi drivers sometimes robbed) more secure.

 

[Dai Corner]

Question for those with young children or grandchildren.

When they 'play shops' do they use cash, chip & PIN, contactless card or mobile payments?

 

[Bald Rick]

Question for those with young children or grandchildren.

When they 'play shops' do they use cash, chip & PIN, contactless card or mobile payments?

Mine used chip and pin on their ‘cash’ register, but that was more than a decade ago, ie before contactless / mobile was widely available.

 

[johnnychips]

I will be using a £20 note at the Chinese takeaway tomorrow - cards not accepted.

At M&S yesterday, the shopper in front paid a £50+ bill with 3 X £20 notes. I paid by card there, though.

Is this a Sheffield thing? I’ve noticed this in quite a few restaurants and even one or two pubs since I moved here, even compared with Doncaster, which is hardly a cosmopolitan metropolis.

 

[sheff1]

Is this a Sheffield thing? I’ve noticed this in quite a few restaurants and even one or two pubs since I moved here, even compared with Doncaster, which is hardly a cosmopolitan metropolis.

I don't know if it is just a Sheffield thing, but there are certainly many places (of all types) in the city which only accept cash, and paying large sums in supermarkets with cash is common. Not easy to see if there has been a change in the latter with Covid-19, as only one person is allowed at the checkout belt at a time. What doesn't seem to have changed with Covid is the queue of pensioners at the Post Office drawing out cash in the mornings.

My favoured butcher has supposedly gone 'card-only' because of Covid, but only the other day the customer in front wanted to pay by cash and the store owner took it with the proviso that he would round the total up to £15 by throwing in a couple of sausages and then gave £5 change out of his own money saying he would put his own card through later. I assume he was worried about losing business, as the two butchers opposite are still accepting cash (and card).

 

[johnnychips]

And guess what? Fancied some fish and chips at Manor Top on the way back from my walk - first cash I’ve spent since March 30th!

 

[Karl]

I'm gagging for a bag of fish 'n chips. They're not open round here yet. Sheffield's a bit out of my way. Patience

 

[Hadders]

It certainly is legal at present for Tesco to go cashless. But a lot of people seem to be ignoring the fact that if this became the norm in every supermarket it would be brutally hard on some groups. E.g. a genuinely homeless beggar who has managed to collect enough coins can currently buy (say) a half price Tesco sandwich for (say) £1.

I've seen beggars near that store with contactless terminals. They will adapt.

 

[johntea]

Something I was randomly thinking of, I wonder how the seaside arcades will change in light of all this with the 2p (although now a lot have seemingly introduced inflation and gone to the dizzying heights of 10p!) machines, presumably people won't want to be touching a load of grubby old 2p coins any more!

 

[najaB]

Something I was randomly thinking of, I wonder how the seaside arcades will change in light of all this with the 2p (although now a lot have seemingly introduced inflation and gone to the dizzying heights of 10p!) machines, presumably people won't want to be touching a load of grubby old 2p coins any more!

My guess is that they'll just use the coins as tokens. Convert your winnings at the booth...

 

[Andrew S]

I was wondering today about whether the washing machines in laundrettes still need the exact coins. It would be quite easy technologically to set up contactless/chip and pin payment devices, and save all that coin counting and banking.

 

[Karl]

Something I was randomly thinking of, I wonder how the seaside arcades will change in light of all this with the 2p (although now a lot have seemingly introduced inflation and gone to the dizzying heights of 10p!) machines, presumably people won't want to be touching a load of grubby old 2p coins any more!

No, no, no!

Nothing's going to stop me from one of my childhood's vandalism. Give 'em a kick! Please keep these machines

 

[Bletchleyite]

My guess is that they'll just use the coins as tokens. Convert your winnings at the booth...

That's effectively how they work now, nobody has a load of 2ps in their wallet any more, you go to the booth with a quid or a fiver and buy a load, then change them back if you want. Not much of a leap there into buying/selling them by card at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was wondering today about whether the washing machines in laundrettes still need the exact coins. It would be quite easy technologically to set up contactless/chip and pin payment devices, and save all that coin counting and banking.

If you can do it to a vending machine, you can do it to a washing machine.

 

[underbank]

I was wondering today about whether the washing machines in laundrettes still need the exact coins. It would be quite easy technologically to set up contactless/chip and pin payment devices, and save all that coin counting and banking.

That'll upset the criminal gangs who use laundrettes as a front for money laundering (yes, really, not a joke - breaking bad was a very good example!).

Card operated laundrettes are already commonplace in University accommodation together with apps which tell you when a machine is available and when your washing has finished.

 

[underbank]

That's effectively how they work now, nobody has a load of 2ps in their wallet any more, you go to the booth with a quid or a fiver and buy a load, then change them back if you want. Not much of a leap there into buying/selling them by card at all.

I think the point is about handling a load of grubby coins - it's always been a manky experience, but with Covid, it's not just dirty fingers people will be worried about bacteria/viruses etc.

 

[Hadders]

I visited Whitby last summer. Even the public toilets accepted contactless payment.

 

[Dai Corner]

I visited Whitby last summer. Even the public toilets accepted contactless payment.

Same in Tenby. My smallest electronic payment to date at 40p. Largest is £16,000 to a car dealer.

 

[Tom B]

If you can do it to a vending machine, you can do it to a washing machine.

There are a couple of technologies which effectively piggyback on the coin acceptor and work via 4g, then emulate a correct coin payment to the machine, so easy enough to retrospectively install.

 

[najaB]

I think the point is about handling a load of grubby coins - it's always been a manky experience, but with Covid, it's not just dirty fingers people will be worried about bacteria/viruses etc.

Put them through a tub of disinfectant. But that does raise money laundering issues...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Put them through a tub of disinfectant. But that does raise money laundering issues...

I've certainly laundered money (in the washing machine) in the past. The new plastic notes (and indeed plastic cards) seem to survive OK

 

[david1212]

Turning the argument on its head here - if you were buying something online and as you went to enter your payment details the system crashed.
The retailer would not have been paid so wouldn't provide whatever it was that you were attempting to buy.
What makes this any different in a physical shop? - no payment = no goods.
Just because you wish to pay for your goods in cash does not oblige the retailer to accept it.

I believe that goods in shops fall (in contract law) under the definition of an invitation to treat, and that following a judgement made in the case of Pharmaceutical Society of GB v Boots Cash Chemists (Southern) Ltd such an offer is not fulfilled until the retailer has accepted payment. Thus if the retailer refused to accept payment (because its terms were a cashless form of payment and due to a failure of the cashless payment system you were unable to pay) then the contract is frustrated and so nullified.

In practice I suspect (at the present time) that the prospect of adverse publicity might well cause any retailer to opt to (temporarily) accept a cash payment in those circumstances.

Your comment about not being able to pay at all online if the system crashed is totally valid and reasonable. Sometimes there may be an alternative e.g. Paypal rather than directly entering debit or credit card details. Another option might be using a different supplier.
The difference though online is mostly you would not have the product instantaneously anyway. Examples of exceptions are software downloads / activation, pay-per-view or download video and similar.

All though different from having a trolley full of shopping and then not being able to pay as happened when I was in Aldi.

For public transport if the payment system crashed all those without tickets would be stranded if no cash option. Similarly for motoring if not able to buy fuel with cash.

 

[Qwerty133]

Same in Tenby. My smallest electronic payment to date at 40p. Largest is £16,000 to a car dealer.

My smallest card payment (for an actual product and therefore excluding the couple of times I have put a penny through a machine to test it was working) was 10p

 

[johnnychips]

In the past when I looked at my online bank statements every now and again, it was very predictable: standing orders, direct debit, cash withdrawal and the odd big purchase on a card. Now it’s stuff I can’t even remember buying a week ago like SQRTL PC. £10.79, and a gigantic list of similar stuff. I used contactless six times today. Normally a monthly list of transactions would have no more than twelve items! However, I could easily get used to it!