Coronavirus: Is this the end of physical cash? Will we go completely electronic?

[plugwash]

Equally, earlier in the week I went to the cash and carry for something, wrote them a cheque, and they had to think for a minute what buttons to press on the till to take it!

I was under the impression that with the dimise of the cheque gaurantee card scheme most buisinesses had stopped taking personal cheques.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was under the impression that with the dimise of the cheque gaurantee card scheme most buisinesses had stopped taking personal cheques.

I'm assuming given the venue being a cash and carry that this was a business cheque.

 

[notlob.divad]

Where I live now (Not UK) this was already happening, cash in your wallet is becoming a thing of the past. The only thing I really need it for is some loose change for washing the car at the Jet wash.

The potential for transmission of this virus has put a stop to cash being accepted almost everywhere.

 

[Tom B]

I'm assuming given the venue being a cash and carry that this was a business cheque.

This was actually a personal cheque, which are accepted at Costco. Most places who continue to accept personal cheques (in my experience) are those where you have an account or ongoing relationship with them, reducing the risk.

 

[Karl]

I was shocked when refused a Northern £10 Day Ranger at Preston station as I tried to pay with a £10 note. I was told to pay on the train. Before boarding the train to Leeds I told the guard. He just said get on. We haven't been issued ticket machines today. The trip to Leeds was stressful as I was worried about a Penalty Fare should an RPI catch me without a ticket. I made sure I left my Northern form, my £10 note and the Promise to Pay ticket on the table in front of me. Luckily, on arrival at Leeds, I had to change trains and I was let through the ticket gate and my cash was accepted at the ticket office. I could then continue my journey relaxed!

 

[Socanxdis]

Apple Pay/Google Pay is the best. You don't need to physically touch the pay terminal with anything.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apple Pay/Google Pay is the best. You don't need to physically touch the pay terminal with anything.

Contactless cards the same, they work if held about 10mm away from the machine.

 

[Meerkat]

WHSmiths were not accepting cash this morning.
At least half the shops in the town centre are shut, with more to follow today. For the rest I doubt the handful of customers ambling about are worth keeping the lighting and HVAC on for.....

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I was shocked when refused a Northern £10 Day Ranger at Preston station as I tried to pay with a £10 note. I was told to pay on the train. Before boarding the train to Leeds I told the guard. He just said get on. We haven't been issued ticket machines today. The trip to Leeds was stressful as I was worried about a Penalty Fare should an RPI catch me without a ticket. I made sure I left my Northern form, my £10 note and the Promise to Pay ticket on the table in front of me. Luckily, on arrival at Leeds, I had to change trains and I was let through the ticket gate and my cash was accepted at the ticket office. I could then continue my journey relaxed!

The suspension of all franchises from today means the TOCs are not bothered about revenue (or costs) any more, as the government is paying.
Cutting back on revenue protection is also likely, to maintain social distancing.

 

[philthetube]

It's still legal tender.

I suspect that doesn't mean what you think it means.

"Legal Tender" has no meaning for any retail purchase. Shops are free to accept or decline any form of payment they might wish to.

I agree that declining cash makes little commercial sense though!

Legal tender means that it must be accepted for a debt, anything paid for after benefiting from , eg meals at a restaurant can be paid for with cash, it cannot be refused. that is interesting on a train as if you have boarded and travelled any distance then a debt becomes due and so cash cannot be refused.

 

[Mojo]

BBC is reporting that the Contactless limit will increase to £45 from April 1st as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic.

 

[Mogster]

Where I live now (Not UK) this was already happening, cash in your wallet is becoming a thing of the past. The only thing I really need it for is some loose change for washing the car at the Jet wash.

The potential for transmission of this virus has put a stop to cash being accepted almost everywhere.

It’s the same in the UK. I hardly ever use cash now although I do always carry it.

 

[JohnB57]

Legal tender means that it must be accepted for a debt, anything paid for after benefiting from , eg meals at a restaurant can be paid for with cash, it cannot be refused. that is interesting on a train as if you have boarded and travelled any distance then a debt becomes due and so cash cannot be refused.

That's why I carefully specified "retail purchases", where you are effectively making a contract on pre-agreed terms, including acceptable payment methods.

As you say, for debts that have already been incurred, for example restaurants, cash must be accepted to discharge the debt. But importantly, if you don't offer the exact amount of cash, you can't insist on being given change and there are strict rules on the maximum value of coins smaller than £1 that may be offered.

 

[najaB]

Legal tender means that it must be accepted for a debt, anything paid for after benefiting from , eg meals at a restaurant can be paid for with cash, it cannot be refused.

Not true if there's a sign at the door saying "Card payments only".

 

[philthetube]

Not true if there's a sign at the door saying "Card payments only".

I don't know but I would be surprised if that had ever been tried in court.

Cash or nothing in those circumstances, cash will always be taken.

 

[najaB]

I don't know but I would be surprised if that had ever been tried in court.

Cash or nothing in those circumstances, cash will always be taken.

As @JohnB57 said above, debts incurred on pre-agreed terms can only be settled using those terms. By dining at a restaurant that had a stated 'card-only' policy the diner agrees to pay by card. So 'legal tender' would have no relevance.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has anyone any views on the current new style notes in circulation which are of a different nature to the previous paper based ones, in terms of germ transmission on the surfaces.

 

[najaB]

Has anyone any views on the current new style notes in circulation which are of a different nature to the previous paper based ones, in terms of germ transmission on the surfaces.

They should present less of a transmission vector than paper based notes since they are less porous, and can also be washed more easily.

As an aside, very few banknotes are made of pure paper these days. Usually they are made of paper mixed with cotton or linen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They should present less of a transmission vector than paper based notes since they are less porous, and can also be washed more easily.

That's actually not the case if you read the information that's been put out about it - it can live for longer on less porous surfaces.

 

[najaB]

That's actually not the case if you read the information that's been put out about it - it can live for longer on less porous surfaces.

Ah, but there's porous and there's porous. A porous surface on an object that has depth to it - e.g. a pillow or seatarm rest presents less of a risk because the virus particles "fall though" the pores and get "lost" in the body of the item. However, with 'paper' money there's no depth for the virus to get lost in. So the effect of the porosity is just to increase the surface area, meaning more virus particles per note as compared to their polymer equivalents (not to mention that the polymer notes are smaller than the paper notes as well).

Those type of porous object also tend to dry out droplets containing the virus due to a wick effect, but I'd be very surprised if you never noticed how paper money often feels a bit "damp".

 

[nidave]

Looks like you will be able to buy more via clntactless

The contactless limit for in-store spending is to increase from £30 to £45 from 1 April as retailers cut the need for physical contact in shops amid the coronavirus epidemic

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...-beginning-of-april?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Edge

Edit: already reported

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd imagine they may also want to suspend the 6ish transactions limit.

 

[najaB]

I'd imagine they may also want to suspend the 6ish transactions limit.

There is, of course, no limit imposed by the banks for contactless transactions via Google / Apple Pay.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is, of course, no limit imposed by the banks for contactless transactions via Google / Apple Pay.

Though from experience some terminals are misconfigured to apply it. For instance LNR's TVMs do not appear to take any form of contactless over £30.

 

[nidave]

Though from experience some terminals are misconfigured to apply it. For instance LNR's TVMs do not appear to take any form of contactless over £30.

It might not be - it depends on the retailer. They can set individual limits on Apple Pay/Google Pay

 

[Essan]

I was under the impression that with the dimise of the cheque gaurantee card scheme most buisinesses had stopped taking personal cheques.

I continue to take cheques simply because it annoys the banks who'd rather be rid of them

However, almost all transaction in my shop (antiques) are cash. As a consequence of which, I also use mostly cash when making purchases in shops (as I always have plenty on me!) though I am slowly shifting towards more contactless use

 

[Dai Corner]

I continue to take cheques simply because it annoys the banks who'd rather be rid of them

However, almost all transaction in my shop (antiques) are cash. As a consequence of which, I also use mostly cash when making purchases in shops (as I always have plenty on me!) though I am slowly shifting towards more contactless use

Doesn't the bank charge you through the nose for depositing the cheques? What do you do to avoid fraud?

 

[Essan]

Doesn't the bank charge you through the nose for depositing the cheques? What do you do to avoid fraud?

Personal, not business account Yes, there is a small risk of fraud but to be honest, I only get a handful of cheques a year and I can usually tell if someone is dodgy. Last time I had a problem was over 15 years ago (and that was with a cheque guarantee card - a stolen one)

 

[SteveP29]

This concept that contactless is high risk as anyone with a gadget can nick your money has one rather big flaw. It isn’t cash in hand they can then spend. Their gadget has to get your bank to send them money, electronically, to an account they have set up.
Obviously far from impossible, but raises the complications and the evidence trail for the bad guy.
And I assume the banks don’t instantly settle them, there is delay during which they can block paying contested charges?

I notice that whenever I've used Google Pay or contactless with my credit card, the transactions are not posted to my account until 2 days later, that gives plenty of scope for banks to identify fraudulent transactions.
We may not like that organisations have as much information about us, but unusual spending patterns are flagged and indeed I have had text messages from my bank asking if I just made a transaction that they describe in the text

 

[Dai Corner]

I notice that whenever I've used Google Pay or contactless with my credit card, the transactions are not posted to my account until 2 days later, that gives plenty of scope for banks to identify fraudulent transactions.
We may not like that organisations have as much information about us, but unusual spending patterns are flagged and indeed I have had text messages from my bank asking if I just made a transaction that they describe in the text

Furthermore, if I lose my wallet the cash is gone, potentially forever, but I can instantly 'turn off' my cards via my bank's app/website/call centre. I presume that also affects the associated virtual cards stored on my phone.