Coronavirus precautions: Has the world gone mad?

trebor79

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Covid-19 has transformed how GPs work - from having to wear full PPE instead of ordinary clothes, to seeing a huge decline in the number of patients they are seeing. Here's how one practice in Liverpool has adapted.

"When the patient has left, I'll clean down the room before anyone else comes in and change all my(PPE) so it is as safe as it possible can be. It may not be as approachable, but we are doing our best to make sure everyone can feel safe coming into a GP surgery."

All this means a much slower trickle of patients.

This time last year the surgery was seeing around 130 patients a day for GP appointments, blood tests or just to pick up a prescription.

But on the day we visited, just 24 patients attended the surgery, all by appointment only.

"The amount of people I have spoken to on the phone with anxiety and depression... They were probably keeping it together, but it's the last straw that broke the camel's back.

"They can't cope now. It has been a massive impact.

"People are still having heart attacks, they are still having strokes, they are still having cancer, unfortunately.

"And there are a lot of other people that are dying of other things that seem to have been forgotten a little bit.

"It's a massive hidden cost of lockdown and that is really worrying for all of us - because we think there is an epidemic [of non-Covid illnesses] and we are just waiting for it to come."."
News report of the measures taken by a GP surgery in Liverpool.
Full PPE the whole time? Surely the GP could sit well away from the patient and only don PPE if a close physical examination is needed?
Cleaning down the visiting room between every patient? What about hand sanitizer on the way in and out, and only cleaning if a patient has had symptoms, coughed or sneezed?
I can't help wondering if the measures described are way over the top.

My son went back to school this week. They wahs their hands in the playground before entering, and at certain times in the day, such as before lunch. The school is the same, except they have individual desks and don't share pencils etc. Displays still on the wall, all pretty normal. They clean during the day as well as in the evening and finish slightly early in Wednesday for a deep clean.
My wife works part time at a different school. She came back almost in tears this week. All the walls completely bare. All books removed, all soft furnishings removed. It's an old Victorian building so now resembles a prison and is being fumigated with some kind of fogging system every night.

I can't help but think some otherwise sensible folk have gone a bit bonkers. The GP in the linked article is on another planet. Covid19 isn't *that* contagious or that prevalent. Indeed, according to the WHO, 15 minutes of close contact is typically required, and the average GP appointment is shorter than that.
 
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NorthOxonian

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Indeed a lot of this equipment might impair her work as a GP. The mask is the most obvious example - it'll make it more difficult for her to communicate sensitively with patients. This applies especially to those discussing mental health needs - if someone comes in because they're struggling mentally during the current time and they see their GP wearing that, how will they react?
 

trebor79

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... and to top it off, Fawlty Towers 'The Germans' episode has been removed from websites!! Don't mention the war! Hors d'oeuvres, hors d'oeuvres...... :)
Actually I view the return of snowflake politics as something of a positive, it means COVID is receding, at least in this part of the world. There was another article explaining the difference between gender and sex
I must admit the absence of this kind of nonsense for the last 3 months has been welcome.
I've got my copies of Blazing Saddles and Tarantinos entire oeuvre on DVD as they'll be next be banned.
 

trebor79

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Indeed a lot of this equipment might impair her work as a GP. The mask is the most obvious example - it'll make it more difficult for her to communicate sensitively with patients. This applies especially to those discussing mental health needs - if someone comes in because they're struggling mentally during the current time and they see their GP wearing that, how will they react?
Exactly. My wife's mother and aunt are scared stiff already. Seeing health professionals behaving like that will only scare then further.
 

BJames

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To answer the OP, maybe. I found some of the measures in hospitals (e.g. not having ill people sitting right on top of each other in the waiting room) actually quite nice. But to be honest, that's where it ends. For example, having to stand 2 metres away from the reception desk and having to explain why you are here in a raised voice, literally in the middle of the waiting room. You can forget any privacy.

The schools thing though, people I have been in contact with have said that their school had to take down all the displays as well in the primary classrooms for fear of children touching them. I'm sceptical about whether this is really necessary after proper handwashing and sanitisation.
 
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sheff1

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"We also say to patients if they arrive early: 'please stay in your car outside'"

I have never gone to a doctor's surgery in a car in my life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The world might not have gone mad, but it seems part of Liverpool has.
 

MikeWM

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"We also say to patients if they arrive early: 'please stay in your car outside'"

I have never gone to a doctor's surgery in a car in my life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The world might not have gone mad, but it seems part of Liverpool has.
My doctor's surgery has closed its front door, so you now have to walk round the side, sharing a narrow space with cars coming in/out. Doesn't seem much of a safety improvement, but I guess being hit by a car is better than getting a virus... ;)
 

Scrotnig

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My doctor's surgery has closed its front door, so you now have to walk round the side, sharing a narrow space with cars coming in/out. Doesn't seem much of a safety improvement, but I guess being hit by a car is better than getting a virus... ;)
As a country, we are now only interested in health issues if it's the virus.

If you DO actually get hit by a car, good luck with getting any treatment for any injuries sustained.
Plus you have the added bonus that if you die as a result of being hit by a car, they'll probably put Covid-19 on the death certificate.
 

Richard Scott

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Afraid there seems to be a simple answer to the question, yes, we have gone mad. Can't believe how over the top it is, how long is this insanity carrying on for? Until we're all paranoid and mentally unstable. Is that what politicians and the media want?
 

Solent&Wessex

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The local authority where I live has, in my semi rural area of village communities, now - no doubt at vast expense - painted one-way arrows on the local pavements, even between villages, and where there are no shops. This is backed up by one-way walking signs strapped to lamp posts and many "Stay 2 metres apart at all times. Save Lives" signs also attached to lamp posts, bins, bus stops and anything else that wasn't moving. In some areas there are pavements only on one side of the road.

It seems the council has decided the risks associated with crossing the road multiple times to make sure you are walking the right way, or even walking on the road where there is a pavement only on one side - even when the pavements themselves are completely empty - are less likely to kill you than the 1 second it takes for you to walk past someone, should you have to, on a pavement in the open air.

A glance at our community facebook group suggests that about 75% of correspondents think it is completely bonkers and the nanny state gone mad and they won't be paying attention, and the remaining 25% who seem to think it is excellent, passing within even 5 metres of another human for even a nano second will almost certainly kill them on the spot and they hope the police will be out enforcing the one way walking restrictions because it is simply too dangerous to go out in public otherwise.
 
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HSTEd

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I'm afraid we've fallen into a sunk cost fallacy over this whole mess.

Now that so much has already been sacrificed/expended, noone is willing to place any limits on anything.
 

Bantamzen

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I've said this before, but I will say it again. Will someone please stop the world, I want to get off....

Seriously though, this is the kind of plain lunacy that has overtaken this country. Doctors dressed as if they are about to tackle the debris in the aftermath of Chernobyl, people jumping into oncoming traffic to avoid passing within 2 metres of another human being, bookstores planning book quarantines if someone dare to touch them, stores selling clothing but not allowing you to browse or check that they fit, one way systems in supermarkets whilst people queue outside in car parks in the rain. All of it is madness on an unprecedented scale, and it has to stop.

But it won't. In today's society we have forgotten that we are merely slightly cranially advanced apes (and these days even that is in doubt) that are very, very mortal. Instead we are rapidly becoming risk-adverse, neurotic, psychotic maniacs that believe we ought to be wrapped in bubble wrap in order to reduce the risks to us to zero. One minute people are shouting about how terrible it is that people fly around in aircraft and how they are killing the planet, the next the very same are demanding face coverings & gloves that will eventually be dumped in the oceans, and chemicals to keep them safe that will doubtless poison the environment more.

I honestly believe that our only hope now is a First Contact (of the Star Trek movie kind) moment, where some pointy eared extra terrestrials arrive and tell us all to calm the you-know-what down and act logically.
 

DelayRepay

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My doctor's surgery appears to have gone mad as well.

If you need to attend for an appointment, you do not enter through the main door. You will be told which door to use by telephone (presumably the fire exits).

The surgery also dispense prescriptions. Prescription collections are via the front door. There is a strict 1 in, 1 out policy with only one person permitted inside at any time. Despite the fact that only one person is allowed in at any one time, they have 'one way' arrows with a separate route from the door to the dispensing hatch, and back from the hatch to the door. They have used furniture to clearly enforce the distance between the 'in' lane and the 'out' lane.

Yet, at least in the video they have posted, the front door is closed. So every person attending will need to touch the door handle to go in, and again to go out. I am not a scientist, but I think propping the door open (also allowing fresh air to get inside) would be more effective in preventing spread of the virus and any other nasty bugs, rather than having social distancing arrows and markers in a space where only one person is allowed to be at any time...
 

adc82140

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Yes. I'm sick and tired of being hounded round supermarkets, with their silly one way systems. You are simply not going to pick up coronavirus by passing another person going the other way. In fact there is a higher (although still negligible) risk with everyone going round in a procession. It seems to have been forgotten that you have to be within 2 metres of someone for 15 minutes to pick it up. This is why healthcare professionals are at risk. This is why care home staff are at risk. This is why people passing in shops are not.
 
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squizzler

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There is a need for ongoing care, but the public as a whole have had a couple of decades being conditioned to submit to overblown and pointless 'security theatre' as a result of the so-called war on terror, politicians have discovered that this is a way to be seen to be doing something and that people actually buy it.

The more nuanced response is that some stuff will work, other things are just about the 'optics'.
 
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island

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Supermarkets are so frustrating that I have more or less given up visiting them. Thankfully, supply of online delivery slots in my area has caught up with demand so I am able to mostly rely on this service.
 

nedchester

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There is a need for ongoing care, but the public as a whole have had a couple of decades being conditioned to submit to overblown and pointless 'security theatre' as a result of the so-called war on terror, politicians have discovered that this is a way to be seen to be doing something and that people actually buy it.

The more nuanced response is that some stuff will work, other things are just about the 'optics'.
Absolutely, it’s all about being seen to be doing “something”. The problem is that it feeds the fear monster for more and more ridiculous restrictions.
 

squizzler

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There seems to be a sort of convergence between the recent fashion for drone photography and the need to show that something is being done in terms of 'social distancing' - the two seem made for each other. I have lost count of the number of 'iconic' aerial photographs in the paper over the last couple of months showing every manner of activity being done in the regulatory grid formation.
 

Bayum

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News report of the measures taken by a GP surgery in Liverpool.
Full PPE the whole time? Surely the GP could sit well away from the patient and only don PPE if a close physical examination is needed?
Cleaning down the visiting room between every patient? What about hand sanitizer on the way in and out, and only cleaning if a patient has had symptoms, coughed or sneezed?
I can't help wondering if the measures described are way over the top.

My son went back to school this week. They wahs their hands in the playground before entering, and at certain times in the day, such as before lunch. The school is the same, except they have individual desks and don't share pencils etc. Displays still on the wall, all pretty normal. They clean during the day as well as in the evening and finish slightly early in Wednesday for a deep clean.
My wife works part time at a different school. She came back almost in tears this week. All the walls completely bare. All books removed, all soft furnishings removed. It's an old Victorian building so now resembles a prison and is being fumigated with some kind of fogging system every night.

I can't help but think some otherwise sensible folk have gone a bit bonkers. The GP in the linked article is on another planet. Covid19 isn't *that* contagious or that prevalent. Indeed, according to the WHO, 15 minutes of close contact is typically required, and the average GP appointment is shorter than that.
They’re still in a clinical environment where there is potential transmission of Covid-19, though? Don’t forget - the PPE is worn to prevent cross-contamination in both ways; doctor to patient and patient to doctor. It’s a matter of clinical life at the moment, it’s as simple as that. Staff in hospitals are wearing full on PPE because that’s what is required to keep them safe.
GP and patient are in a confined space for a period of time. Granted, the GPs aren’t seeing as many patients, but each one carries a risk of having coronavirus. Just wait ‘til you hear what paramedics are doing...
 

Bayum

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The schools thing though, people I have been in contact with have said that their school had to take down all the displays as well in the primary classrooms for fear of children touching them. I'm sceptical about whether this is really necessary after proper handwashing and sanitisation.
Was part of the guidance we received. Think we want to spend our time deconstructing a display we’ve worked hard on putting up in the first place? We don’t want our classrooms to look dull and boring and sterile, but the clinical advice we received was to remove any and all soft furnishings that could be a source of fomite transmission.
 

scarby

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I honestly believe that our only hope now is a First Contact (of the Star Trek movie kind) moment, where some pointy eared extra terrestrials arrive and tell us all to calm the you-know-what down and act logically.
We’re already here - in Sweden, though not with pointy ears.

In the last 24 hours in Stockholm have been on a local ferry - normal, been to the passport office - normal, been to collect some files from an office - normal, been to some shops - normal, been to the pub (sorry) - normal.

The only encouragement being to keep distance where possible, wash or disinfect hands frequently and people not allowed in the pub if there’s nowhere left to sit.

What’s more (going a bit off topic but relevant) the outbreak is curbing itself, with hospitalisations falling since the beginning of May and the death rate also on a notable downward trend.
 

Bantamzen

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We’re already here - in Sweden, though not with pointy ears.

In the last 24 hours in Stockholm have been on a local ferry - normal, been to the passport office - normal, been to collect some files from an office - normal, been to some shops - normal, been to the pub (sorry) - normal.

The only encouragement being to keep distance where possible, wash or disinfect hands frequently and people not allowed in the pub if there’s nowhere left to sit.

What’s more (going a bit off topic but relevant) the outbreak is curbing itself, with hospitalisations falling since the beginning of May and the death rate also on a notable downward trend.
<Sigh>

Wish I was there! :D
 

Huntergreed

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I would argue we’ve all went mad to a degree, but the U.K. seems to win the award on that front, seemingly wanting to clench onto their lockdown and restrict civil freedoms for no real cause that I can think of. I’m no expert in politics, but this to me most certainly isn’t something I would expect to have to do in a 21st century democracy, it’s arguably an infringement on human rights for little to no purpose as the virus could be suppressed with far, far less restrictive measures.

It’s almost like they’re playing a game and wanting to be “different” just to stand out in the history books, and every day they become more deluded as not one of them shows any understanding of reality.
 

nlogax

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Don't forget that this is in order to be seen to be doing the right thing in the eyes of the public and various authorities.

Of course, in the grand British tradition it's inconsistent, probably too late, mostly pointless and is likely costing a fortune to implement - and will be torn down by Christmas.
 

timothyw9

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Yes.

They've started putting 2m signage up around Piccadilly gardens in manchester, which is the last place anyone is going to follow social distancing properly.

Making face covering mandatory on public transport but keeping the limited capacity is also another thing I find completely silly ( and I dont see lasting much longer).

Completely sick of the OTT government, media and business scare mongering going on and it seems to be showing the complete lack of common sense people in this country have.
 

adc82140

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I'm irritated now. Can't get a booking at my local tip for over a month. This is pointless. The tip was built for social distancing. Who wants to go near other people's rubbish, or even other people there, bearing in mind anyone with a big DIY job on will probably smell of hard work. I'm off to canvas our neighbours and see who's up for a whip round for skip hire.
 
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Really uplifted my spirits to read the OP comments and so much agreement, about time people started to speak up. So ridiculous how over the top everywhere has become with signs, stickers, barriers, cones etc., the manufacturer's of such products must be rubbing their hands with glee at all the money they are making. Sadly most appear to be made of plastic, the very thing we are being told to cut down on, and eventually there will be a mountain of discarded waste to get rid of.
 

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