Coronavirus precautions: Has the world gone mad?

[Baxenden Bank]

It would mean border controls, and that isn't devolved. Without that it would be unenforceable.

If someone really wanted to do it, I'm sure they could find a way. After all they kept people in their houses for weeks.

Thinking aloud, if you ran non-stop after the pre-border station to a terminus, you could have staff (or a thermal-imaging camera) at that terminus checking temperatures of all passengers on arrival. A high temperature is a sign of potential COVID, and there are enforceable public heath based restrictions on the movements of the diseased. Taken away to a 'Welcome to Scotland Hostel' for 14 days?
For example all west coast trains non-stop Carlisle to Glasgow/Edinburgh, east coast trains non-stop Berwick to Edinburgh. Dumfries route more problematical but compulsory train swap at Dumfries?
Air travel clearly can be controlled.
Road travel clearly much more difficult. Time for some 'urgent roadworks' on the M74, with the ensuing single lane traffic jam patrolled by Sturgeon Squads carrying electronic thermometers!

 

[NorthOxonian]

Thinking aloud, if you ran non-stop after the pre-border station to a terminus, you could have staff (or a thermal-imaging camera) at that terminus checking temperatures of all passengers on arrival. A high temperature is a sign of potential COVID, and there are enforceable public heath based restrictions on the movements of the diseased. Taken away to a 'Welcome to Scotland Hostel' for 14 days?

I'm not sure a temperature is a reliable sign - it could be anything and many people with the virus don't have a fever.

I'm only half joking when I say they should test people's smell instead - maybe they could go through each carriage with garlic or something else which is very pungent. Loss of smell or taste does seem to be a very distinctive sign of the virus!

 

[Huntergreed]

I'm not sure a temperature is a reliable sign - it could be anything and many people with the virus don't have a fever.

I'm only half joking when I say they should test people's smell instead - maybe they could go through each carriage with garlic or something else which is very pungent. Loss of smell or taste does seem to be a very distinctive sign of the virus!

Everyone would just admit they could smell it to avoid a 2 week quarantine if they did that sadly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm only half joking when I say they should test people's smell instead - maybe they could go through each carriage with garlic or something else which is very pungent. Loss of smell or taste does seem to be a very distinctive sign of the virus!

Operate all services to Scotland using Voyagers, ideally with failed aircon. Anyone who finds the toilet smell bearable has COVID and can be quarantined.

 

[leightonbd]

It would mean border controls, and that isn't devolved. Without that it would be unenforceable.

Surely an instruction by SG to accommodation providers not to admit people without evidence of a Scottish address would have the desired effect (Politically, of course, but also practically)? On two levels - as a ‘not welcome’ signal as well as a practical deterrent. I’m not saying some people wouldn’t busk it somehow, and it wouldn’t catch people staying with friends, or wild camping/ bothying, but many would be put off trying. Don’t rule it out yet ...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely an instruction by SG to accommodation providers not to admit people without evidence of a Scottish address would have the desired effect (Politically, of course, but also practically)? On two levels - as a ‘not welcome’ signal as well as a practical deterrent. I’m not saying some people wouldn’t busk it somehow, and it wouldn’t catch people staying with friends, or wild camping/ bothying, but many would be put off trying. Don’t rule it out yet ...

It strikes me that the present 5 mile thing is essentially to keep the English out plus the Central Belt city dwellers out of the Highlands.

Would it be legal for Scotland to mandate all businesses to serve only those with a Scottish address?

 

[leightonbd]

Would it be legal for Scotland to mandate all businesses to serve only those with a Scottish address?

Good question but nothing seems beyond Govt just now ...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good question but nothing seems beyond Govt just now ...

There will certainly need to be something, be that that kind of restriction or be that a falling into line of Scotland with England.

It demonstrably seems to be the case that Scotland is following the same "elimination" path as New Zealand, but what is clear is that closed borders are required to achieve and maintain that. England is clearly following a "hammer and dance" policy of trying to keep cases suppressed but not trying to eliminate, i.e. opening up things to a point where they essentially flatline. That policy by definition has to continue until a vaccine/treatment, but it doesn't require closed borders, at least not to countries with a similar or lower level of infection.

Wales appears not to know what it's doing.

 

[Richard Scott]

There will certainly need to be something, be that that kind of restriction or be that a falling into line of Scotland with England.

It demonstrably seems to be the case that Scotland is following the same "elimination" path as New Zealand, but what is clear is that closed borders are required to achieve and maintain that. England is clearly following a "hammer and dance" policy of trying to keep cases suppressed but not trying to eliminate, i.e. opening up things to a point where they essentially flatline. That policy by definition has to continue until a vaccine/treatment, but it doesn't require closed borders, at least not to countries with a similar or lower level of infection.

Wales appears not to know what it's doing.

It just seems to be Sturgeon is probably the one person who fits the title of this thread perfectly. She's hellbent on destroying Scotland's economy just so she can say she eliminated the virus. I thought she was supposed to be intelligent, she does know how a virus operates and that it isn't even that bad (yes, I know before we go over old ground if has killed people) in the grand scheme of things. And as for last comment, Wales doesn't have a clue. There's a petition to get rid of Drakeford, would be best thing for Wales.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

As broadcast on BBC Radio 4's "Dead Ringers" radio show last weekend, Nicola Sturgeon's continuing policy seems to be to do whatever is the complete opposite of what Boris Johnson does!

 

[yorkie]

Can we stick to posting examples of precautions that have been taken please?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can we stick to posting examples of precautions that have been taken please?

Sorry.

Here's one, then, which I've reported to Premier Inn's Twitter for comment and they are investigating.

A Premier Inn which will remain unnamed for now sent the following to a friend:

You will need to provide proof of living together, as we need to comply with the government guidelines regarding the covid-19, if you cannot provided (sic) this proof then unfortually (sic) we will not be able to check you into the same room.

As I said to PI, quite apart from the unprofessional nature of an e-mail with two spelling mistakes, there are large numbers of people who will have issues with this - support bubbles, families with kids, couples where one doesn't drive and everything is in the other's name (very common) etc.

 

[kylemore]

By next spring, if things carry on like this, half of the hostpitality / tourism industry will have gone bust!

And the railway. I will just about suffer a mask for my 35min commute - once and if I've a job to go back to I'll have to. However the idea of wearing a muzzle for 2 or more hours on a train is out of the question, so that's leisure journeys, for instance up the West Highland cancelled until the stupidity passes - if it ever does.

The bus drivers where I live appear to have - for the most part - a policy of ignoring the nonsense, so bus journeys might be possible, other than that it'll be the car - adding to congestion and pollution.

What I can't understand is the railway management actually enthusiastically joining in the idiocy and bringing on their own demise, because have no doubt the government will soon tire of throwing money at empty trains.

 

[Bantamzen]

Has the world gone mad example #578,987

On a work's Skype kit yesterday, we were shown plans for how our department's public areas would reopen. All very efficient, one way systems marked out, hand sanitisers by the doors, staff on hand to manage numbers, lots of social distancing signs, masks available & encouraged, screens between staff and the public, 2 metre distancing between the same....

Oh wait said somebody, masks, screens and 2m distancing? How are the visiting members of the public supposed to discuss what might be personally sensitive matters with the staff? Cue awkward silence...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh wait said somebody, masks, screens and 2m distancing? How are the visiting members of the public supposed to discuss what might be personally sensitive matters with the staff? Cue awkward silence...

Is this a bank perchance? Side rooms?

 

[Bantamzen]

Is this a bank perchance? Side rooms?

No, its a public sector department. And once upon a time there would have been plenty of side rooms, then open planning happened. Without saying too much (and seriously I do have to be careful here), I would not want to be someone needing to visit one of these offices right now. Because shouting out personal & potentially sensitive information from 2 metres away, through a mask & plastic screen isn't the best idea at the best of times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, its a public sector department. And once upon a time there would have been plenty of side rooms, then open planning happened. Without saying too much (and seriously I do have to be careful here), I would not want to be someone needing to visit one of these offices right now. Because shouting out personal & potentially sensitive information from 2 metres away, through a mask & plastic screen isn't the best idea at the best of times.

True. Arguably if there's a screen there's no need for a mask, FWIW.

 

[Bantamzen]

True. Arguably if there's a screen there's no need for a mask, FWIW.

Indeed, and after said awkward silence this point was made by someone on the kit. And the response was almost equally mad, basically this had been considered but they were not sure if having screens would count as a mitigation for not being able to keep people 2m apart. At this point I was torn between laughing insanely, or banging my head on the table. I ended up doing both!

 

[yorkie]

True. Arguably if there's a screen there's no need for a mask, FWIW.

The problem is that in the UK, our ludicrously over-obsessed health & safety culture effectively encourages the combining of two (or more) 'safety' measures that were never intended to be combined, so that someone can tick boxes and say we have gone beyond the requirements and therefore are doing a 'good job.

The fact that such combinations make things impracticable, and sometimes cause other problems (such as potential data protection issues in this case) is not being considered.

 

[duncanp]

Some papers are reporting that Nicola Sturgeon is threatening Scots with £5,000 fines if the break the quarantine rules, as she has "refused to endorse the air bridge plans".

OK so the paper was the Scottish Daily Express, so you might have to take that report with a pinch of salt, but does Ms Sturgeon really think that such a fine will be enforceable without border controls ?(which Boris will most certainly not let her have)

How do you stop Scottish people from booking flights departing from Newcastle and Manchester, both of which are easily accessible from Scotland?

 

[Richard Scott]

Some papers are reporting that Nicola Sturgeon is threatening Scots with £5,000 fines if the break the quarantine rules, as she has "refused to endorse the air bridge plans".

OK so the paper was the Scottish Daily Express, so you might have to take that report with a pinch of salt, but does Ms Sturgeon really think that such a fine will be enforceable without border controls ?(which Boris will most certainly not let her have)

How do you stop Scottish people from booking flights departing from Newcastle and Manchester, both of which are easily accessible from Scotland?

She is completely mad and power crazy. Awaiting the likely to be equally bonkers Welsh directive. She is supposed to be an intelligent woman but afraid this is not painting her in a good light. It really shows someone who doesn't even understand simple maths.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

True. Arguably if there's a screen there's no need for a mask, FWIW.

How do you stop Scottish people from booking flights departing from Newcastle and Manchester, both of which are easily accessible from Scotland?

Breaking news: The government has confirmed two outbreaks of common sense have been detected and whack-a-mole local measures have been deployed. Bletchleyite and Duncanp are now required to wear gloves and blindfolds, to prevent transmission of subversive counter-thinking.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some papers are reporting that Nicola Sturgeon is threatening Scots with £5,000 fines if the break the quarantine rules, as she has "refused to endorse the air bridge plans".

OK so the paper was the Scottish Daily Express, so you might have to take that report with a pinch of salt, but does Ms Sturgeon really think that such a fine will be enforceable without border controls ?(which Boris will most certainly not let her have)

How do you stop Scottish people from booking flights departing from Newcastle and Manchester, both of which are easily accessible from Scotland?

What she'll do is gob off, wait 2 weeks then quietly let it go, that's been the process all along

Of course what that will also do, given that the Scots have their summer holidays finishing sooner, is mean the English get a summer holiday and the Scots don't, and people are unlikely to forget that.

 

[Bikeman78]

Indeed, and after said awkward silence this point was made by someone on the kit. And the response was almost equally mad, basically this had been considered but they were not sure if having screens would count as a mitigation for not being able to keep people 2m apart. At this point I was torn between laughing insanely, or banging my head on the table. I ended up doing both!

My bank has dumped a table or chest of drawers in front of each of the (presumably bullet proof) windows forcing people to stand at least a metre away. Short people would struggle to reach the slot to put in cheques, cards, cash etc.

 

[Howardh]

I see Farage has en photographed in an UK pub, he's just come back from the USA - a place still ravaged by CV and off the travel list. So why's he not in quarantine, are businessmen (if that's his excuse) immune?? Same applies, of course, to Johnson senior on his trip to Greece.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see Farage has en photographed in an UK pub, he's just come back from the USA - a place still ravaged by CV and off the travel list. So why's he not in quarantine, are businessmen (if that's his excuse) immune?? Same applies, of course, to Johnson senior on his trip to Greece.

It seems he may have broken the law, and I hope if so that he is penalised to the full extent of it. If he isn't then the Government clearly are in his pockets.

Does anyone know which is his local Police Force? A complaint could perhaps be made in the manner it was for Cummings.

 

[birchesgreen]

I see Farage has en photographed in an UK pub, he's just come back from the USA - a place still ravaged by CV and off the travel list. So why's he not in quarantine, are businessmen (if that's his excuse) immune?? Same applies, of course, to Johnson senior on his trip to Greece.

No different laws apply to the elite than for you and me

 

[trebor79]

No different laws apply to the elite than for you and me

Farage? Elite?

 

[bramling]

Farage? Elite?

There’s quite a difference between Farage and Cummings, the latter being someone very close to the PM and who no doubt had a key role in designing the various rules and guidelines.

Likewise Stanley Johnson - although it’s embarrassing ultimately he’s not a member of the government.

 

[birchesgreen]

Farage is part of the establishment (whether his fans believe it or not).