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Coronavirus precautions: Has the world gone mad?

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SteveM70

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It seems he may have broken the law, and I hope if so that he is penalised to the full extent of it. If he isn't then the Government clearly are in his pockets.

Does anyone know which is his local Police Force? A complaint could perhaps be made in the manner it was for Cummings.

Kent, I think

It looks like Ed Davey has made a complaint, though nothing will probably come of it
 

Jamiescott1

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I bet Greece was added to the list so Johnson senior can come home with no need to self isolate
 

Huntergreed

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Went out for a five min walk here in Leicester about 20 mins ago.
Saw 4 or 5 minicabs, two with passengers, none with facemasks.

Without a strictly enforced travel ban, achieving the maximum suppressive potential of any lockdown in a localised boundary is impossible, however, this is completely unviable practically (nobody can block every exit and public transport can't be stopped) and unaffordable (we still don't have the staff).

What we do have to consider though is that the % of people that comply with the local lockdown will be roughly equal to the % of the maximum effectiveness to which the suppression is achieved. I would make a rough estimate of around 10-20% non-compliance which still means the local lockdown will be 80% effective in suppressing the virus in the concerned area, so whilst it isn't perfect, it's certainly more effective than nothing at all. I do think sadly that the %compliance amongst the population will decrease quickly as time goes on, and that this will bring challenges in and of itself, however, for the meantime, I think that we are looking at a healthy enough level of compliance to mean that the local lockdown will be effective enough to be justified.
 

PHILIPE

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Potential holidaymakers from Leicester are being turned away from Cornwall. But looking at it realistically, they are not supposed to leave Leicester
 

Enthusiast

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Potential holidaymakers from Leicester are being turned away from Cornwall. But looking at it realistically, they are not supposed to leave Leicester
I wonder by whom and on what grounds? People from Leicester are permitted to travel elsewhere (although they're advised against it). Apart from that, the area affected by the lockdown is relatively small. I wonder how those in Cornwall are ensuring they turn away only those from the affected area. Or is it that if you have an LE postcode (which extends into Nottinghamshire, Northamptonshire, Derbyshire and Warwickshire) you are considered persona non grata?

Sounds a surefire recipe for unrest, methinks.
 

Huntergreed

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I wonder by whom and on what grounds? People from Leicester are permitted to travel elsewhere (although they're advised against it). Apart from that, the area affected by the lockdown is relatively small. I wonder how those in Cornwall are ensuring they turn away only those from the affected area. Or is it that if you have an LE postcode (which extends into Nottinghamshire, Northamptonshire, Derbyshire and Warwickshire) you are considered persona non grata?

Sounds a surefire recipe for unrest, methinks.
Technically speaking, city of residence in the UK is not a “protected characteristic” so people are allowed to be told they can’t do something for that reason.


In practice, however, people can just make up an address and I imagine many will.
 

DB

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Technically speaking, city of residence in the UK is not a “protected characteristic” so people are allowed to be told they can’t do something for that reason.


In practice, however, people can just make up an address and I imagine many will.

Isn't having or being suspected of having a particular infectious disease a protected characteristic, though?
 

Enthusiast

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Technically speaking, city of residence in the UK is not a “protected characteristic” so people are allowed to be told they can’t do something for that reason.
Quite agree. I was rather more thinking it might be the police doing the turning away with no legal basis.
 

Huntergreed

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Isn't having or being suspected of having a particular infectious disease a protected characteristic, though?
It is not. Officially the protected characteristics in the UK are:
  • age.
  • disability.
  • gender reassignment.
  • marriage and civil partnership.
  • pregnancy and maternity.
  • race.
  • religion or belief.
  • sex.
Meaning that, provided the reason given is not any of the above, a business can refuse custom for any reason, including place of residence and/or belief of the customer carrying an infectious coronavirus.
 

317 forever

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It is reported that places including bars, hairdressers and libraries will be obliged or required to take our names and phone numbers, in case of a Coronavirus outbreak, the need for Test & Trace and for us potentially to have to self-isolate.


If we can only use contactless for payment, such as for drinks at a bar, our movements can to some extent be traced.

So, if we want to keep some predictability of freedom, there will be a list of public places we need to avoid.
 
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DB

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It is reported that places including bars, hairdressers and libraries will be obliged or required to take our names and phone numbers, in case of a Coronavirus outbreak, the need for Test & Trace and for us potentially to have to self-isolate.

If we can only use contactless for payment, such as for drinks at a bar, our movements can to some extent be traced.

So, if we want to keep some predictability of freedom, there will be a list of public places we need to avoid.

Yes, indeed - I'm not going anywhere if I have to give them my name and contact details.

As regards contactless payments, although yes, in theory these could be used for tracing, I suspect that the government is too technically incompetent to be able to do it in the timescale required. After all, having to give name and contact details has only come about because their tracing app didn't work - they were told right from the beginning by people who knew what they were talking about that its design was fundamentally flawed and unworkable, but the government still continued to push it as the solution for several months!
 

DelayRepay

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As regards contactless payments, although yes, in theory these could be used for tracing, I suspect that the government is too technically incompetent to be able to do it in the timescale required. After all, having to give name and contact details has only come about because their tracing app didn't work - they were told right from the beginning by people who knew what they were talking about that its design was fundamentally flawed and unworkable, but the government still continued to push it as the solution for several months!

If the government were really serious about tracing people, they would have had the security services build the system. A combination of use of bank records (especially now lots of places won't take cash), mobile phone GPS data and ANPR records should find everyone they needed to. I expect they could also use facial recognition if there was an outbreak in a shopping centre, for example.
 

DB

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If the government were really serious about tracing people, they would have had the security services build the system. A combination of use of bank records (especially now lots of places won't take cash), mobile phone GPS data and ANPR records should find everyone they needed to. I expect they could also use facial recognition if there was an outbreak in a shopping centre, for example.

Even the security services could in no way have done that in the timescale needed!
 

takno

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If the government were really serious about tracing people, they would have had the security services build the system. A combination of use of bank records (especially now lots of places won't take cash), mobile phone GPS data and ANPR records should find everyone they needed to. I expect they could also use facial recognition if there was an outbreak in a shopping centre, for example.
Facial recognition isn't doing quite as well as it used to, what with all the masks
 

Jamiescott1

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Give a name, not necessarily your real name.
I would suggest Dominic Cummings will be one of the most used names this weekend.
 

furlong

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No obligation in law to give contact details - if you don't want to, take your business to establishments that have chosen not to demand them as a condition of entry, just as you can choose businesses that do or don't require masks according to your preference. Wetherspoon for example says it's supporting the system by providing forms for you to fill in yourself and put into a box when you leave (if you want to) and they'll destroy them after 21 days.
 

sheff1

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If the government were really serious about tracing people, they would have had the security services build the system. A combination of use of bank records (especially now lots of places won't take cash), mobile phone GPS data and ANPR records should find everyone they needed to.

Over the last three days all the purchases I have made have been with cash. I was not carrying a mobile phone. I do not own a car.
 

sheff1

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Without a legally approved list of “reasonable excuses” this is meaningless in legislation.

There is a long list of reasonable excuses in the legislation but it does not purport to be definitive. Someone could argue going on holiday was a reasonable excuse, but I would not want to be that person.
 

Islineclear3_1

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It is reported that places including bars, hairdressers and libraries will be obliged or required to take our names and phone numbers, in case of a Coronavirus outbreak, the need for Test & Trace and for us potentially to have to self-isolate.

Reported by whom?

I popped into my local barbers after a family day out as I hadn't had a haircut since lockdown. Although there were screens and the barbers were wearing masks, there was no sanitisation and I was not asked for my name and address/telephone number
 

DelayRepay

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Over the last three days all the purchases I have made have been with cash. I was not carrying a mobile phone. I do not own a car.

Yes, so any test and trace system using these details would not ''catch' you, and you'd only be traced if someone gave your details of if you'd left your details on a form at the establishment.

But I imagine 95% of people would be 'caught' by one or more of these mechanisms. The more people 'caught', the more effective T&T will be in dealing with any outbreaks, but the fact there might be a small number of people who aren't caught doesn't stop it working for the majority who are.

By the way, I'm not suggesting they should use all that data, just that if they were really serious that is what they would do.
 

Skimpot flyer

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I’m sure government would outlaw the use of cash completely if they could, but not for public health reasons. They’ve always been unhappy about people paying tradesmen in cash, because the Exchequer misses out on tax revenue. At the same time, however, huge corporations avoid tax and that same government does nothing to prevent it.
In everyday life, my use of cash is extremely rare now. When waiting for an Arriva bus recently, a Centrebus service that I hadn’t planned to use turned up, so - as it was going to the same place - I boarded, stated my destination and produced my contactless bank card. As they only take cash, and I didn’t have any, they missed out on some revenue
 
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yorkie

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It is reported that places including bars, hairdressers and libraries will be obliged or required to take our names and phone numbers, in case of a Coronavirus outbreak, the need for Test & Trace and for us potentially to have to self-isolate....
I don't think this is correct, but can you please edit your post to include a link to, and quote from, your source, in line with forum rules please? Thanks :)

My understanding is that it is not mandatory but is an option for consideration. I will post my experience in the relevant thread shortly.
 

Bletchleyite

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I don't think this is correct, but can you please edit your post to include a link to, and quote from, your source, in line with forum rules please? Thanks :)

My understanding is that it is not mandatory but is an option for consideration. I will post my experience in the relevant thread shortly.

I had a pint in (the beer garden of) a pub in Cambridge yesterday and details were not collected.

We weren't other than briefly within 2m of anyone else, anyway, so track and trace (aka "phone a friend service") wouldn't have been interested.
 

Skimpot flyer

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Even it were compulsory to leave contact details, do staff of such establishments have any way to check the details given are genuine? Utterly pointless. Wouldn’t be at all surprised if Dominic Cummings and Stanley Johnson have been signed-in at numerous establishments, often simultaneously, since Saturday!
 
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