Coronavirus.

[DarloRich]

No, don't. There is no point in "something must be done" politics. That just damages the economy for no benefit.

Im really glad they are basing these decisions on science rather than a desire to be seen to be doing something. We need to do what is right for Britain rather than looking over our shoulder at what other countries are doing.

I disagree. That is exactly what needs to be done to reinforce the importance of the advice. People will think what has been said today is bonkers. They will look at other countries and THINK they are doing more and ask why our government seems to care more about business than people. That means when the time for real action comes people will not listen because they have no trust in what Johnson is telling them.

By all means protect the economy but TRY to do something that doesn't make you look like a clown. Telling people that this is "the worst public health crisis for a generation" & "many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time" and then saying don't go on a cruise LOOKS insufficient. The importance of public confidence in the advice seems to have been missed. If people have no confidence in the advice given they wont comply.

BTW It was also clear from the words of the scientific officers that they had never been to an actual football game! They have certainly never stood for a pee or a pint at half time or stood on a packed terrace.

 

[Bletchleyite]

BTW It was also clear from the words of the scientific officers that they had never been to an actual football game! They have certainly never stood for a pee or a pint at half time or stood on a packed terrace.

So? They're just gatherings of large numbers of people, and so as far as this goes they are the same as gigs, discos and the likes or even packed, short-formed LNR peak-time services (sorry, couldn't resist ). I know you ascribe special importance to football, but from the point of view of fighting an infection it is no different to anything else where you have a load of people packed in together.

 

[DarloRich]

So? They're just gatherings of large numbers of people, and so as far as this goes they are the same as gigs, discos and the likes or even packed, short-formed LNR peak-time services (sorry, couldn't resist ). I know you ascribe special importance to football, but from the point of view of fighting an infection it is no different to anything else where you have a load of people packed in together.

I don't assign any importance to football beyond numbers, I simply have most experience of it. You may know more about gigs but no gig I have been to has had 25/30/40/50k there! I know how crowded football concourses get at half time (Often because they are not big enough), how crowded toilets are, how poor facilities for washing your hands are, I know how people jump on you when there is goal etc etc.

Although i know a bit about crowded trains mind. There was a guy in a mask on ours tonight ;- )

 

[Mogster]

I disagree. That is exactly what needs to be done to reinforce the importance of the advice. People will think what has been said today is bonkers. They will look at other countries and THINK they are doing more and ask why our government seems to care more about business than people. That means when the time for real action comes people will not listen because they have no trust in what Johnson is telling them.

By all means protect the economy but TRY to do something that doesn't make you look like a clown. Telling people that this is "the worst public health crisis for a generation" & "many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time" and then saying don't go on a cruise LOOKS insufficient. The importance of public confidence in the advice seems to have been missed.

BTW It was also clear from the words of the scientific officers that they had never been to an actual football game! They have certainly never stood for a pee or a pint at half time or stood on a packed terrace.

There’s no evidence that people are being infected at large outdoor events. Why place even more pressure on the economy by cancelling and banning events to no end. I can see the emergency services angle, if they are stressed then stopping gatherings will reduce their load and makes sense. We aren’t at that point yet.

Same goes for schools, there’s no evidence that kids are spreading this particular virus. Send them home and you have a percentage of the population staying at home just to look after the kids when they should be at school.

changing peoples activity patterns can have unexpected or unwanted effects apparently.

 

[geml90]

Just had an email from Gov.uk with the travel update for the Czech Republic saying that the border will be closed from tomorrow for UK and visitors from some other countries.

Was booked on a train into the country within the next month. The tickets are still on sale but I wonder if they'll cancel the trains soon?

 

[DarloRich]

There’s no evidence that people are being infected at large outdoor events. Why place even more pressure on the economy by cancelling and banning events to no end. I can see the emergency services angle, if they are stressed then stopping gatherings will reduce their load and makes sense. We aren’t at that point yet.

Same goes for schools, there’s no evidence that kids are spreading this particular virus. Send them home and you have a percentage of the population staying at home just to look after the kids when they should be at school.

changing peoples activity patterns can have unexpected or unwanted effects apparently.

It isn't about the evidence. It is the "optics". It is the perception. It is PR if you like.

It looks wrong> People will think it is wrong> People will say the government aren't doing enough>People will lose confidence> People will question future advice> people will not react correctly when the time comes> things get worse/bad.

These are the words of our PM: this is "the worst public health crisis for a generation" & "many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time". Can you see why people might think the response ( got a cold? Stay at home. Don't cruise) is not adequate, regardless of what the experts ( who Johnson and his chums told us we didn't need remember) say based on evidence?

BTW - I am not saying close schools or make everyone stay at home. Yet. I am saying do something that is quite minor but looks important and maintain public confidence. I am sure the experts know what they are doing, understand science and have a superb grasp of their data. I am not sure they understand people, emotion and how people react.

Also don't say self isolation is hard. It isn't. It would be great. 14 days at home with no one bothering me. Fantastic. Where do i sign?

 

[edwin_m]

The point made was that closing schools would result in kids, who seem to be most able to shrug coronovirus off with little or even no symptoms being looked after by their grandparents who are in the most at risk group because their parents still have to go out to work.

Or a whole lot of parents also have to take time off because there are no convenient grandparents or they want to keep them safe. The only semi-rational explanations I can think of for targeting schools rather than other gathering places is that small kids aren't good at social distancing, and if kids show very minor or no symptoms they might be spreading the virus without knowing it.

Im really glad they are basing these decisions on science rather than a desire to be seen to be doing something. We need to do what is right for Britain rather than looking over our shoulder at what other countries are doing.

I disagree. That is exactly what needs to be done to reinforce the importance of the advice. People will think what has been said today is bonkers. They will look at other countries and THINK they are doing more and ask why our government seems to care more about business than people. That means when the time for real action comes people will not listen because they have no trust in what Johnson is telling them.

Ignoring the scientific advice is the perfect way to lose trust - perhaps some people are now realising that experts do matter! If a particular activity is shut down for PR reasons rather than a genuine scientific justification, then the people who lost out financially from that decision could well take the government to court. Trump is trying to turn this into a political issue but fortunately we haven't gone quite that far down the road yet.

 

[DarloRich]

If a particular activity is shut down for PR reasons rather than a genuine scientific justification, then the people who lost out financially from that decision could well take the government to court.

Oh no. They might sue. See you in court. In December.

BTW - You may have missed this but the PM said this is "the worst public health crisis for a generation". Not sure the Judge is going to be on your side when you complain about actions taken to mitigate such a situation.

 

[Meerkat]

If a particular activity is shut down for PR reasons rather than a genuine scientific justification, then the people who lost out financially from that decision could well take the government to court.

I am not sure they would have any legal basis to do that - the government would effectively have temporarily changed the law.

 

[peri]

Does self isolation mean no contact with anyone at all for 14 days? I think I'd struggle to live for a fortnight just on what's in the house.

 

[matacaster]

I don't buy the line that "if we play football matches without spectators they will go and watch it on TV in the pub". Surely, all that's needed is for the Govt to tell SKY, BT and anyone else offering such services that they have to prevent commercial venues offering any mass spectator sport (or anything else like it). Simple!

 

[matacaster]

There’s no evidence that people are being infected at large outdoor events. Why place even more pressure on the economy by cancelling and banning events to no end. I can see the emergency services angle, if they are stressed then stopping gatherings will reduce their load and makes sense. We aren’t at that point yet.

Same goes for schools, there’s no evidence that kids are spreading this particular virus. Send them home and you have a percentage of the population staying at home just to look after the kids when they should be at school.

changing peoples activity patterns can have unexpected or unwanted effects apparently.

The big difficulty is that the scientists aren't completely sure about how the virus is transmitted. How much actual physical contact needs to take place over how long, or is being in the path of a single sneeze more of a problem. It also seems that many people are walking about without knowing they have coronavirus as they have no symptoms and they are likely most infectious as soon as they get the slightest obvious symptom if not before.,

 

[bahnause]

There’s no evidence that people are being infected at large outdoor events.

How COVID-19 Spreads
Person-to-person spread
The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person.

• Between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet).
• Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes.

These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs.

It doesn‘t matter if the close contact happens indoor or outdoor. There is no difference.

 

[ainsworth74]

Does self isolation mean no contact with anyone at all for 14 days? I think I'd struggle to live for a fortnight just on what's in the house.

As far as I'm aware the advice has been that it is acceptable to still receive deliveries from either companies or from family/friends. Though obviously do not invite them in just ask them to leave things on the door step.

 

[DarloRich]

Does self isolation mean no contact with anyone at all for 14 days? I think I'd struggle to live for a fortnight just on what's in the house.

Get an asda order in then. The advice is that you can still get things delivered. It just needs to be left on the doorstep. Obviously that relies on people being able and willing to deliver!

 

[Master29]

Whichever way anyone looks at it this is going to be a wake up call for all walks of life.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't assign any importance to football beyond numbers, I simply have most experience of it. You may know more about gigs but no gig I have been to has had 25/30/40/50k there!

The Bowl is 75 or 80K capacity, I forget, been a while since there was anything on there though.

But I'm not sure that actually matters. The point is that you're in a crowd in close proximity to others. The actual number is less important, as in a crowd of 75K you're unlikely to get within 2m of about 70K of them.

 

[MidlandsChap]

Boris Johnson says this is the "worst public health crisis in a generation and many more families are going to lose loved ones before their time" and the response............................................. don't go on a cruise if you are old and stop at home if you have a tickle and feel a bit hot

I am sure the scientists are doing what they think is right based on their data and in particular the behavioural science stuff they are relaying on and which we cant see. What is missing is the understanding of public relations and the need to do something to bolster public confidence in the advice. Many people will not think this advice goes far enough and will lose confidence when they need it most.

They say that closing football stadiums for instance serves no purpose. Do it then. It shows to people who might not understand the science this is serious.

The blustering barnacle didn't even manage to hit home the advice about washing your hands ffs.

I had criticised their lack of action previously but having listened to their logic in todays live feed, I think they explained their plans very well. Its not their fault if average joe and bianca public do not have the mental faculty to understand. There is only so much you can dumb it down.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I had criticised their lack of action previously but having listened to their logic in todays live feed, I think they explained their plans very well. Its not their fault if average joe and bianca public do not have the mental faculty to understand. There is only so much you can dumb it down.

I think it's clear that Bojo is genuinely leaving this one to the experts, which is reassuring.

 

[MidlandsChap]

It isn't about the evidence. It is the "optics". It is the perception. It is PR if you like.

It looks wrong> People will think it is wrong> People will say the government aren't doing enough>People will lose confidence> People will question future advice> people will not react correctly when the time comes> things get worse/bad.

So you are saying they should do things that dont need to be done just to make the public happy. I have no words for that I really dont.

Unfortunately the public on the whole dont know whats best for them. They fail to see the economic and social issues that would quickly follow largescale shut downs of events. Many people working in football grounds etc live from payday to payday. As somebody above correctly said, if people can no longer put food on the table the civil unrest would be many times worse than Covid-19.

 

[robbeech]

Does self isolation mean no contact with anyone at all for 14 days? I think I'd struggle to live for a fortnight just on what's in the house.

Essentially yes. There are benefits to having a stock of food, drink, toiletries that you can make use of for if you need to do this. If the worst happens and you don't have supplies then as others have said you can still get grocery deliveries, and friends and family can drop stuff off. Likewise, if you are NOT self isolating, it would be nice to think you could do the same for someone else should the need arise.
If things develop rapidly and you have elderly neighbours, give them a call (perhaps don't go round) , to see if they need anything.

 

[NoMorePacers]

I think it's clear that Bojo is genuinely leaving this one to the experts, which is reassuring.

As the saying goes, a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As the saying goes, a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day.

I think that is highly unfair. I didn't vote for him and I wouldn't, but this is not the time for digging in that way.

 

[Busaholic]

How are you getting through three boxes of paracetamol in two and a half weeks?!

Three boxes = 48 tablets, three tablets a day on average = 16 days. Don't wish to get too personal, but the MRI scan that diagnosed my MS condition a while back showed an ongoing sinus problem that I was aware of, but my choice is not to have an operation as I consider it a minor matter in comparison to others I go through: the paracetemol keeps the sniffles at bay and, in these days of heightened awareness of personal health might prevent my premature culling by the powers-that-be!

 

[Busaholic]

So you are saying they should do things that dont need to be done just to make the public happy. I have no words for that I really dont.

Unfortunately the public on the whole dont know whats best for them. They fail to see the economic and social issues that would quickly follow largescale shut downs of events. Many people working in football grounds etc live from payday to payday. As somebody above correctly said, if people can no longer put food on the table the civil unrest would be many times worse than Covid-19.

A week or so back, which seems like the Middle Ages so much has happened since, the BBC gathered together an interesting selection of 'top people' or, rather, former top people who had been experts in their field and who were prepared to be candid about the prospects for the country, based partly on personal experiences of comparable problems of varying magnitude that had exercised them. Jonathan Powell, who was Tony Blair's chief-of--staff, revealed that after the dreadful events of 7/7/05 the heads of the Intelligence Services were extremely keen to close down the parts of the London Underground system that the bombers hadn't succeeded in targeting for an indefinite period, but Blair's stance, which prevailed, was that 'then the bombers would have won.' I believe he was right in that thinking, and now, in different circumstances, do we want coronavirus to have won hands down when there is still a chance it can be contained in such a way that it'll be thought of as a mere 'blip' in years to come? Why panic when current circumstances don't justify it?

 

[Meerkat]

I think it's clear that Bojo is genuinely leaving this one to the experts, which is reassuring.

Doesn’t he have a reputation for leaving stuff to the experts (or people he chooses to delegate to), because he isn’t interested in details and gets bored easily?

 

[LOL The Irony]

The Australian Grand Prix has been cancelled.
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1238240420548751365?s=20

 

[bramling]

So you are saying they should do things that dont need to be done just to make the public happy. I have no words for that I really dont.

Unfortunately the public on the whole dont know whats best for them. They fail to see the economic and social issues that would quickly follow largescale shut downs of events. Many people working in football grounds etc live from payday to payday. As somebody above correctly said, if people can no longer put food on the table the civil unrest would be many times worse than Covid-19.

I can see both sides of this discussion. Reality is there is no right answer, it may well be a case of damned if Boris does and damned if Boris doesn’t. At least he is making decisions rather than sitting on the fence.

 

[fairysdad]

Three boxes = 48 tablets, three tablets a day on average = 16 days. Don't wish to get too personal, but the MRI scan that diagnosed my MS condition a while back showed an ongoing sinus problem that I was aware of, but my choice is not to have an operation as I consider it a minor matter in comparison to others I go through: the paracetemol keeps the sniffles at bay and, in these days of heightened awareness of personal health might prevent my premature culling by the powers-that-be!

That's fair enough. I hope I didn't come across as brash or offensive in my asking! I think it's because I personally have one tablet every so often if I have a headache and can't afford a nap (which usually gets rid of it for me!). I did have an incident a few years ago involving a paracetamol overdose though which does make me a bit more wary of taking them - unfortunately I cannot take aspirin or ibuprofen because of an allergy so when it comes to pain relief I have little choice!

 

[DarloRich]

So you are saying they should do things that dont need to be done just to make the public happy. I have no words for that I really dont.

I am saying the confidence that people have in the information given AND the confidence they have in the government to look after us is crucial. People will look at what has been implemented ( stay at home/don't go on a cruise) and compare that with the words of the PM which were "the worst public health crisis for a generation" and many families will "lose loved ones before their time". They will then look at other countries and the actions taken there and start to wonder if the words and the actions taken here match up. Many already think not.

BTW I am simply suggesting that the government make a few token gestures that have little overall impact to ensure public confidence is retained and enhanced. One could be closing football grounds or sporting events. That will impact some people but not a massive number. Social media ( and football boards I am a member of) are already full of people suggesting this should have been done. You might well think they are all idiots and they might well be but if confidence is lost in the ability of the government to handle this problem we will all be in big trouble.

having listened to their logic in todays live feed, I think they explained their plans very well

I agree - it made perfect sense. I heard it all on the radio and understood the context and the information relied upon. Most wont have done that. They will see soundbites, as above, and make up their mind. They are already. They are already criticising the response as inadequate. I think that is a dangerous thing when the time for real restrictions comes which we are told it will.