Coronavirus.

[Bletchleyite]

People may find that closing footpaths and bridleways in overcrowded areas is suddenly justified on urgent safety grounds, just like it is for coastal paths during a rock fall.

But they need to know that the UK does not have executive orders. There is simply no legal basis, until Monday at least, to do that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm becoming increasingly fine with that outcome if that is what it takes to rein in these imbeciles.

All I hope is that it includes a French style "you can do physical activity on your own locally" line. I'll go stir crazy if I have to stay *in the house* for several months. But a few laps of the block would be fine for exercise.

 

[JonathanH]

One issue I note that might also require a lock down is that, without the 'night time economy' and supermarkets empty later in the day and shutting at 8pm the only people out late at night will be the young hanging around with each other.

While the only people out should be 'key workers' returning home it might be a bit threatening for them returning through deserted streets without a visible security presence.

 

[thejuggler]

This is false. "The trails" are public rights of way and primary legislation is required to close them.

For clarity there are private trails in the Dales, such as Ingleton Waterfalls, Aysgarth Falls, Bolton Abbey and they are the ones now being closed.

 

[Darandio]

One issue I note that might also require a lock down is that, without the 'night time economy' and supermarkets empty later in the day and shutting at 8pm the only people out late at night will be the young hanging around with each other.

While the only people out should be 'key workers' returning home it might be a bit threatening for them returning through deserted streets without a visible security presence.

Then they need to police it, with army assistance if necessary. Given that nightlife and the associated strain on emergency services should now be effectively curtailed, there should be extra resources available. If they see people hanging around with each other, cart them off home and warn the parents they will be fined.

 

[tsr]

But they need to know that the UK does not have executive orders. There is simply no legal basis, until Monday at least, to do that.

There are ways to temporarily close a public right of way, including a bridleway or footpath, for a set period of time. It’s done very frequently for utility works, construction etc. I come across several footpath closures a year on my walks around just my local area, always properly signposted with diversion routes (which can be awkward, but so be it). One could potentially enact an extremely long diversion to a right of way which makes it devoid of any leisure use.

In reality, many paths are probably much safer than a supermarket or takeaway cafe even if heavily used, especially if there’s a strong wind taking away any sneezes and coughs before the next person walks along. The main hazard is probably infection via handles on gates or the handholds on stiles, and that can be managed. I’m not endorsing overcrowding, indeed I take a reasonably firm line, as posted above - but if a few strategic closures can spread people out, I reckon everyone should have enough space to exercise safely.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

There's quite a lot of concern where I live (Snowdonia) about people totally ignoring the 'essential journey' bit and heading into the area for a holiday/weekend break/day trip etc, reported that the local Tesco Express was full of them this morning. Some local Air b&b hosts have closed down, others haven't. Campsites reported to be very busy, the local FB village page has calls for 'direct action'

 

[tsr]

There's quite a lot of concern where I live (Snowdonia) about people totally ignoring the 'essential journey' bit and heading into the area for a holiday/weekend break/day trip etc, reported that the local Tesco Express was full of them this morning. Some local Air b&b hosts have closed down, others haven't. Campsites reported to be very busy, the local FB village page has calls for 'direct action'

It would be rather interesting if there was civil unrest in North Wales and the Scottish Highlands instead of London and other major cities!

I can’t see that it would be very widespread given the relative “permanent resident” population in many tourist areas, but equally, I doubt the local police forces would be able to deal with it.

It depends on what “direct action” means, whether it goes round like wildfire and how it’s done.

 

[MP33]

In response to a comment about panic buying i am not aiming to buy 12 weeks worth in one go. I would look at a gradual increase similar to Christmas and New Year time.

i have noticed that if you can be flexible with pricing and choice, there is stuff out there. Frozen Char grilled Brussel Sprouts for vegetables anyone.

I also bought a carton of Lactose intolerant milk from M & S on or in something it will taste the same. It has a use by date of early May as well.

Someone who is also not a fussy eater said that the flavoured milk sold is tolerable in your tea or coffee or cereal.

 

[SHD]

Actually, there are more pressing health and safety issues linked with lockdown than a hypothetical obesity crisis or the yearning for exercise of people of sound body and mind. To name two of these:
- those sleeping rough, and relying on public generosity and charities;
- women in abusive relationship and and children in abusive households.

 

[Howardh]

There's quite a lot of concern where I live (Snowdonia) about people totally ignoring the 'essential journey' bit and heading into the area for a holiday/weekend break/day trip etc, reported that the local Tesco Express was full of them this morning. Some local Air b&b hosts have closed down, others haven't. Campsites reported to be very busy, the local FB village page has calls for 'direct action'

I would have thought with multi-generational families (ie close to the elderly) getting the kids away out to the countryside would be a good thing? All you have with these shutdowns are families increasing in size, surely the risks are there rather than far away?

 

[notlob.divad]

Bletchleyite said:
As a slight aside, has anyone ever worked in the DWP building at Peel Park, Blackpool? I did for a bit ages ago, and that looks laid out internally for easy conversion to a hospital or prison.

The other site at Lytham is/was the opposite - it was converted *from* a wartime hospital!
The Aviva (originally Friends Provident) building in Dorking was given permission as long as it was convertible to a hospital. Long thin blocks, big lifts, wide corridors, double doors.

I am lead to believe that Pilkington now NSG offices in Lathom Lancashire was also given building permission on the grounds that is could be turned into a hospital if needed. Whether those agreeements still exist now, I don't know.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I would have thought with multi-generational families (ie close to the elderly) getting the kids away out to the countryside would be a good thing? All you have with these shutdowns are families increasing in size, surely the risks are there rather than far away?

I think it's about not spreading the virus to other areas cf what happened in Lombardy and the rest of Italy.

 

[notlob.divad]

Looking at the graph in the Guardian, seems that there's been a levelling off of people catching the virus these last three days (UK), around 700/day. Of course we have no idea how many have it and show no symptoms.

But today it jumped to >1000. Could be an anomoly, but it takes 5-8 days for the effects of the social distancing to push through the incubation period.

 

[SPJC]

Hi there,

I'm looking for some advice but can't seem to find any. I am due to travel on Monday for a 3 day visit to London. This is an essential visit, as it includes me having to pick up valuable stuff from a family friend's home that will allow me to work from home, considering the uncertainty of the situation.
The family friend also lives alone so I need to ensure that they'll be okay for the next couple of months - I imagine it will only get worse so it will be almost impossible to physically check on their wellbeing at that point.

On Thursday, the government has said that there is zero prospect of shutting travel in and out of London because they need to keep travel open for essential workers. I'm just a bit worried about the chances of a complete lockdown before Thursday morning (the day I'm supposed to travel back home). I'm worried about being stranded but this journey is essential. I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice to share, supportive comments would be appreciated.

Also another question would be which out of tube/bus/taxi would be safest to travel to reduce chances of catching the virus. Please bear in mind that the taxi would be my most expensive option and a last resort to get to and from the train stations. Once I arrive at Euston, I will be making no stops and just want to get to the home of the family friends quickly and vice versa on my return date.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,
S

 

[Esker-pades]

Hi there,

I'm looking for some advice but can't seem to find any. I am due to travel on Monday for a 3 day visit to London. This is an essential visit, as it includes me having to pick up valuable stuff from a family friend's home that will allow me to work from home, considering the uncertainty of the situation.
The family friend also lives alone so I need to ensure that they'll be okay for the next couple of months - I imagine it will only get worse so it will be almost impossible to physically check on their wellbeing at that point.

On Thursday, the government has said that there is zero prospect of shutting travel in and out of London because they need to keep travel open for essential workers. I'm just a bit worried about the chances of a complete lockdown before Thursday morning (the day I'm supposed to travel back home). I'm worried about being stranded but this journey is essential. I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice to share, supportive comments would be appreciated.

Also another question would be which out of tube/bus/taxi would be safest to travel to reduce chances of catching the virus. Please bear in mind that the taxi would be my most expensive option and a last resort to get to and from the train stations. Once I arrive at Euston, I will be making no stops and just want to get to the home of the family friends quickly and vice versa on my return date.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,
S

Every single lockdown in Europe has happened with a warning of at least 24 hours. Every single measure from the UK government to contain the spread of coronavirus has also had warning in the measure of hours or days. If there is an announcement about a London-wide lockdown while you're in the city, you will be able to leave before the lockdown comes into effect. Obviously, self-isolate when you get back home if that happens for 14 days.

 

[SPJC]

Every single lockdown in Europe has happened with a warning of at least 24 hours. Every single measure from the UK government to contain the spread of coronavirus has also had warning in the measure of hours or days. If there is an announcement about a London-wide lockdown while you're in the city, you will be able to leave before the lockdown comes into effect. Obviously, self-isolate when you get back home if that happens for 14 days.

Thanks for your reply.
Yeah it's just I've been asking Avanti West Coast and they are of no help. They're ambiguous about the situation as they say if there are any updates they'll update customers in due course and also are unwilling to refund customers which means train tickets keep getting extortionate by the day.
Another thing is that there is a lot of scaremongering happening, particularly on social media, where a lot of people are handing out advice and updates as if they're experts. It's really unnerving and anxiety inducing. I've had at least 2 panic attacks in the last couple of days due to the lack of support I've received.

Thanks for you reply, its reassuring.

 

[Esker-pades]

Thanks for your reply.
Yeah it's just I've been asking Avanti West Coast and they are of no help. They're ambiguous about the situation as they say if there are any updates they'll update customers in due course and also are unwilling to refund customers which means train tickets keep getting extortionate by the day.
Another thing is that there is a lot of scaremongering happening, particularly on social media, where a lot of people are handing out advice and updates as if they're experts. It's really unnerving and anxiety inducing. I've had at least 2 panic attacks in the last couple of days due to the lack of support I've received.

Thanks for you reply, its reassuring.

No problem.

If you want fares advice for the journey, make a thread in the Fares Advice section of the forum. There will be plenty of users who can advise how to make your journey cheaper.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Also another question would be which out of tube/bus/taxi would be safest to travel to reduce chances of catching the virus. Please bear in mind that the taxi would be my most expensive option and a last resort to get to and from the train stations.

I can't answer this but you'll be wise to check the Transport for London website which will give an idea of what tube lines are running. What I do know is that tube stations without interchanges are/will be closed. And of course things change by the day.

As for which carries the less risk: tube or taxi, a tube can hold more people however, a taxi driver may have no idea of the medical status of somebody in the back of his cab. ...

 

[Mathew S]

Hi there,

I'm looking for some advice but can't seem to find any. I am due to travel on Monday for a 3 day visit to London. This is an essential visit, as it includes me having to pick up valuable stuff from a family friend's home that will allow me to work from home, considering the uncertainty of the situation.
The family friend also lives alone so I need to ensure that they'll be okay for the next couple of months - I imagine it will only get worse so it will be almost impossible to physically check on their wellbeing at that point.

On Thursday, the government has said that there is zero prospect of shutting travel in and out of London because they need to keep travel open for essential workers. I'm just a bit worried about the chances of a complete lockdown before Thursday morning (the day I'm supposed to travel back home). I'm worried about being stranded but this journey is essential. I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice to share, supportive comments would be appreciated.

Also another question would be which out of tube/bus/taxi would be safest to travel to reduce chances of catching the virus. Please bear in mind that the taxi would be my most expensive option and a last resort to get to and from the train stations. Once I arrive at Euston, I will be making no stops and just want to get to the home of the family friends quickly and vice versa on my return date.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,
S

Welcome to the forum - sorry it's not under better circumstances!

I don't know if this will be reassuring or not, but here goes. TfL and Avanti have both said they've put in place enhanced cleaning on their trains, as well as making sure that there's soap and water available for hand washing (obviously Avanti, not TfL!). Depending how far you're travelling with Avanti, you'll want to take some supplies as I believe they're closed all on train catering. In terms of staying safe, as long as you stay 2 metres at least away from others (pick your seat carefully); wash your hands frequently, and certainly after you alight; and avoid touching your face, I wouldn't have thought the risk was astronomically high from either train, bus, or tube. Personally, I would avoid the taxi, because it's so depending on each driver practising good hygeine.

The most rapidly I've noticed a total lockdown being imposed was in Belgium, where they gave something like 18 hours notice. I think the chances of you getting strander are really, really small. But, if you have a smartphone, consider installing a news app, and letting it send notifications. That will give you a good chance of knowing straight away if a lockdown were announced, and give you time to to get to the station and get home. I would avoid using social media for this, because there's so much incorrect information and as you said in your reply to Felix, it's so anxiety provoking.

Best of luck with the journey. Take care.

 

[krus_aragon]

Had an email from Premier Inn. Hotel open, all bars / restaurants closed. Bring your own food in. Prepaid meal packages to be refunded.

Does that extend to breakfast, too?

 

[krus_aragon]

National Trust have closed all their parks and gardens sites

That's a shame, when they were being so proactive in inviting people to come outdoors just a day or two ago (while closing all their houses and cafes). Ah well...

 

[The Ham]

I also bought a carton of Lactose intolerant milk from M & S on or in something it will taste the same. It has a use by date of early May as well.

Whilst Lactose free milk (cheese and other products) all taste the same, there are some for whom it's the only milk that they can have. As such is suggest only buying it is there's no other options, even then I'd question how essential it actually was.

Interestingly yesterday in our local supermarket the lactose free milk was very limited (a few skimmed milk cartons) whilst there was plenty of choice on the normal fresh milk.

 

[SPJC]

Welcome to the forum - sorry it's not under better circumstances!

I don't know if this will be reassuring or not, but here goes. TfL and Avanti have both said they've put in place enhanced cleaning on their trains, as well as making sure that there's soap and water available for hand washing (obviously Avanti, not TfL!). Depending how far you're travelling with Avanti, you'll want to take some supplies as I believe they're closed all on train catering. In terms of staying safe, as long as you stay 2 metres at least away from others (pick your seat carefully); wash your hands frequently, and certainly after you alight; and avoid touching your face, I wouldn't have thought the risk was astronomically high from either train, bus, or tube. Personally, I would avoid the taxi, because it's so depending on each driver practising good hygeine.

The most rapidly I've noticed a total lockdown being imposed was in Belgium, where they gave something like 18 hours notice. I think the chances of you getting strander are really, really small. But, if you have a smartphone, consider installing a news app, and letting it send notifications. That will give you a good chance of knowing straight away if a lockdown were announced, and give you time to to get to the station and get home. I would avoid using social media for this, because there's so much incorrect information and as you said in your reply to Felix, it's so anxiety provoking.

Best of luck with the journey. Take care.

Thanks for your reply. I guess I'm just going to have to wait and see. Lots of people talking about lockdown, but the government dispelled this last week. If I theres no further measures to restrict travel, then I'll have to make the journey. I will just try to limit my contact and much as I can to and from. Also a lot of people keep 'estimating' when they think there will be a complete lockdown? Do you think we will follow Italy's line of thought, and lockdown at the point they did when they reach x number of cases?

Thanks once again, appreciate the support.

 

[Bantamzen]

Apparently yesterday the NHS "struck a deal" with private hospitals to be able to use their beds & facilities should they be needed. I thought this was a national emergency, the government can shut down businesses, confine people to their homes, but has to ask nicely to secure the use of private health facilities?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51989183

The NHS has struck a deal with private hospitals to acquire thousands of extra beds, ventilators and medical staff to fight the coronavirus outbreak. An extra 8,000 hospital beds across England, nearly 1,200 ventilators and almost 20,000 fully qualified staff will be available from next week. It comes as the number of people in the UK to die with coronavirus rose to 233. The agreement will see the private sector reallocate almost its entire national hospital capacity to the NHS. The extra resources will also help the NHS deliver other urgent treatments. According to the latest figures, there are more than 5,000 confirmed cases of coronavirus in the UK. The number of people with coronavirus who have died is now 220 in England, seven in Scotland, five in Wales and one in Northern Ireland. The most recent 53 deaths in England were people aged 41 to 94 who had underlying health conditions, NHS England said.

In London, the extra resources includes more than 2,000 hospital beds and more than 250 operating theatres and critical beds. The additional staff includes 10,000 nurses, more than 700 doctors and more than 8,000 other clinical staff, who will be joining the health service to help manage an expected surge in cases, said NHS England.

Chief executive Sir Simon Stevens hailed the deal with the private sector. He said: "We're dealing with an unprecedented global health threat and are taking immediate and exceptional action to gear up. "The NHS is doing everything in its power to expand treatment capacity and is working with partners right across the country to do so." Under the terms of the deal, the private sector will be reimbursed at cost, meaning no profit will be made for doing so. "Open book" accounting and external auditors will verify the public funds being deployed.

David Hare, chief executive of the Independent Healthcare Providers Network, said: "We have worked hand-in-hand with the NHS for decades and will do whatever it takes to support the NHS in responding to this pandemic." He added the independent sector "stands ready" to maintain that support for as long as needed.

Shortly after the NHS announcement, Spire Healthcare released a statement confirming it had signed up to assist NHS England for a minimum of 14 weeks. The independent UK hospital group said it would spend the first week preparing staff and facilities before making all its 35 hospitals in England available to the NHS from 30 March. It added that it would be suspending all non-urgent elective surgery for patients over the age of 70 and vulnerable patients from 5:00 GMT on 20 March. The NHS deal comes as a consultant warned that frontline NHS staff risked "cross infecting everybody" because they are not getting the recommended protective equipment. The face mask, short gloves and apron worn by NHS staff is far short of the World Health Organization recommendations, said Dr Lisa Anderson of St George's Hospital in London.

Earlier this week, professional health bodies wrote to 65,000 former doctors and nurses who have left the NHS in the last three years, asking them to rejoin the workforce. Health Secretary Matt Hancock welcomed Saturday's announcement and praised the "heroes returning to the front line". On Tuesday, NHS England announced that its hospitals across the country would be taking a range of actions to prepare, including freeing up 30,000 of the overall 100,000 beds available by postponing non-urgent operations and providing care in the community for those who are fit to be discharged. The NHS is also sourcing up to 10,000 beds in independent and community hospitals, which this deal largely now delivers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apparently yesterday the NHS "struck a deal" with private hospitals to be able to use their beds & facilities should they be needed. I thought this was a national emergency, the government can shut down businesses, confine people to their homes, but has to ask nicely to secure the use of private health facilities?

It hasn't actually got any legislation to back up the former. People have basically been asked/told to do it without any backing and largely done so.

I am however surprised that requisition of all health facilities of any kind isn't part of Monday's Bill.

 

[Antman]

It hasn't actually got any legislation to back up the former. People have basically been asked/told to do it without any backing and largely done so.

I am however surprised that requisition of all health facilities of any kind isn't part of Monday's Bill.

The last thing we need at the moment is outbreaks of civil disobedience and disorder, far better to try and persuade people about what to do than bring in what some will see as draconian legislation.

 

[DerekC]

One unpredicted consequence of coronavirus in our part of Hampshire is that with the reduced traffic the bikers are having a lovely time. The main road near us was an almost continuous roar of bike engines and exhausts yesterday. I guess they are bored and with less traffic you can go faster. And no doubt the police have more important things to think about.

 

[Bantamzen]

It hasn't actually got any legislation to back up the former. People have basically been asked/told to do it without any backing and largely done so.

I am however surprised that requisition of all health facilities of any kind isn't part of Monday's Bill.

And there is my point. We expect large portions of society to shut down, we expect leisure / hospitality businesses to shut down indefinitely, we expect people to go without pay for weeks, maybe even months, but we can't risk upsetting the private health industry by forcing them into making their facilities available.

 

[83A]

One unpredicted consequence of coronavirus in our part of Hampshire is that with the reduced traffic the bikers are having a lovely time. The main road near us was an almost continuous roar of bike engines and exhausts yesterday. I guess they are bored and with less traffic you can go faster. And no doubt the police have more important things to think about.

I have a motorbike and conditions are perfect, especially with less “cages” on the road.

I was thinking of having a ride on my own, I thought I would not be in contact with anyone which is the main concern.

But then I considered, what if I have an accident? The ambulance service, police and possibly fire service would have to come and scrape me off the road and this would divert vital resources and they’d all have to come in contact with me and each other.

So I think I’ll leave the bike at home for now. Regrettably.

Not just bikes but anyone going out should think carefully about their actions.