Coronavirus.

[nidave]

I’d be very relieved if it meant things could return to normal and there was a rapid way out of this crisis. The global economic fallout of the current situation scares me more than the healthcare aspects.

You really need to take a long hard look at yourself and the attitude. Wishing death which could be avoided so you don't suffer any downside is a bat attitude and will bite you in the backside one day when you have to rely on others for your wellbeing or life.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You really need to take a long hard look at yourself and the attitude. Wishing death which could be avoided so you don't suffer any downside is a bat attitude and will bite you in the backside one day when you have to rely on others for your wellbeing or life.

While I don't propose what he says, I've noticed an attitude in quite a few older/more infirm people along the lines of "if it's my time it's my time"...

 

[Ianno87]

You really need to take a long hard look at yourself and the attitude. Wishing death which could be avoided so you don't suffer any downside is a bat attitude and will bite you in the backside one day when you have to rely on others for your wellbeing or life.

Reminds me of Hermiome Grainger in Harry Potter: "Doing this could get us killed, or, worse, expelled [from school]"

 

[Mogster]

You really need to take a long hard look at yourself and the attitude. Wishing death which could be avoided so you don't suffer any downside is a bat attitude and will bite you in the backside one day when you have to rely on others for your wellbeing or life.

There are only 2 certainties in life, death and taxes. You can’t separate healthcare and money...

Apparently we may come out of this crisis with debt levels of over 1tn... According to the BBC this morning the Bank of England is struggling to raise the cash already and effectively printing money. Lenders are already looking unfavorably on Italy offering much higher rates for borrowing. The Italian economy was in dire straights before this, they already have the 3rd highest rate of debt in the world, I’m struggling to see how total collapse of one of the largest Eurozone economies can be avoided unless we find a resolution to this crisis.

You really think this level of financial crisis isn’t going to affect social and healthcare provision making a huge difference to people’s lives???

A total financial meltdown will most likely cause more hardship and kill far more people than CoV2 ever will. I’m genuinely scared by the financial implications of this crisis and I don’t see how anyone can’t be, not just for myself but for everyone. I’m not sure why when I mention the financial implications people think this makes my concern just about me...

So yes we need to hope there’s a resolution to this crisis that averts total financial disaster and keeps the NHS functioning. At the moment we seem to be down a rabbit hole and there’s no way out other than everyone staying at home for months and the whole country, healthcare included, grinding to a halt.

 

[Cowley]

There are only 2 certainties in life, death and taxes. You can’t separate healthcare and money...

Apparently we may come out of this crisis with debt levels of over 1tn... According to the BBC this morning the Bank of England is struggling to raise the cash already and effectively printing money. Lenders are already looking unfavorably on Italy offering much higher rates for borrowing. The Italian economy was in dire straights before this, they already have the 3rd highest rate of debt in the world, I’m struggling to see how total collapse of one of the largest Eurozone economies can be avoided unless we find a resolution to this crisis.

You really think this level of financial crisis isn’t going to affect social and healthcare provision making a huge difference to people’s lives???

A total financial meltdown will most likely cause more hardship and kill far more people than CoV2 ever will. I’m genuinely scared by the financial implications of this crisis and I don’t see how anyone can’t be, not just for myself but for everyone. I’m not sure why when I mention the financial implications people think this makes my concern just about me...

So yes we need to hope there’s a resolution to this crisis that averts total financial disaster and keeps the NHS functioning. At the moment we seem to be down a rabbit hole and there’s no way out other than everyone staying at home for months and the whole country, healthcare included, grinding to a halt.

Having worked for the NHS and Social Services in the past I’m inclined to agree with much of what you say.
This is a very difficult thing to weigh up and isn’t as clear cut as ‘just save as many lives as possible now’.
It’s an almost impossible situation for any government to find themselves in, and what’s in front of them right now is the immediate headlines... Yet history in fifty years time is what they’ll really be judged on.

 

[Mogster]

Having worked for the NHS and Social Services in the past I’m inclined to agree with much of what you say.
This is a very difficult thing to weigh up and isn’t as clear cut as ‘just save as many lives as possible now’.
It’s an almost impossible situation for any government to find themselves in, and what’s in front of them right now is the immediate headlines... Yet history in fifty years time is what they’ll really be judged on.

Yes they are incredibly difficult decisions but they’ll have to be made, decisions that may be difficult to explain to the public. That’s what surprised me about the discussion of herd immunity in Whitty’s presentation early on. It’s a standard population microbiology concept but him mentioning it made gave me a sharp intake of breath for a second. I thought wow, how will people respond to this.

At least we aren’t short of scientific or medical expertise in this country. People like Chris Whitty Neil Ferguson and others have based their whole career on how to respond to this situation and are world authorities.

 

[Peter Kelford]

We don’t know she had ‘no underlying health conditions’ unless further work is done. The 21 year old football coach who died last week was in the same category, until analysis showed he actually had leukaemia. Besides that, there’s always been a warning that deaths have occurred in all age groups, but people have become fixated on this idea that ‘most’ means ‘me’ and ‘those with underlying health conditions’ means I’m absolutely fine because I have none of the risk factors. We know from China that a good number of deaths were amongst people NOT aged 60+, no underlying health conditions or whatever. Indeed, the first whistleblower doctor, man in his prime, died from the virus.

There is less and less proof that young people are actually not affected. It's become a misconception.

 

[The Ham]

There is less and less proof that young people are actually not affected. It's become a misconception.

There's a current theory (and it's just that, as is most thoughts on what's going on and until there's more testing and research we'll not know for sure on any of them) that it's down to how much exposure to other Covid viruses you've had, which typically increases with time but will be different with different people. The more Covid viruses you've had the higher the risk of death, in that your body reacts to 19 the same way, but doesn't disable the virus but makes it more "sticky" and so infects the body more.

As such old people are more likely to have had more exposure and children wouldn't likely to have any (so fight it off as a new thing causing no problems), yet it could well be that a young person has had a lot of exposure to Covid viruses and so would then react in the same way as an older person.

 

[Bantamzen]

While I don't propose what he says, I've noticed an attitude in quite a few older/more infirm people along the lines of "if it's my time it's my time"...

There is a 84 year chap on our street and a few of us have asked if he wanted help with the shopping etc. He's always been fiercely independent and mobile, and his response has been basically if he's to stay inside for months, he's got no reason to go on. Its one reason why I seriously worry about isolating the elderly for 3 months, many literally live to get out and have some interaction with society. I've seen first hand the effects of what happen when some do not, and its not nice.

Having worked for the NHS and Social Services in the past I’m inclined to agree with much of what you say.
This is a very difficult thing to weigh up and isn’t as clear cut as ‘just save as many lives as possible now’.
It’s an almost impossible situation for any government to find themselves in, and what’s in front of them right now is the immediate headlines... Yet history in fifty years time is what they’ll really be judged on.

Its not just the health & social services that are in impossible situations, most central & local government departments are now facing these with money being promised left right and centre, but no-one really knowing where, or when it is coming from. Meanwhile larger & larger numbers of the population are being socially & economically isolated.

I've literally no idea where the balance has to be struck, but the longer this goes on for the more long term economic damage will be done, which in turn will lead to social & health damage in the longer term. At the risk of using a cliché, it is the perfect storm right now.

There is less and less proof that young people are actually not affected. It's become a misconception.

Young people have always been susceptible to, or at least the consequences of, viruses like this. 13 years ago almost to the day, my younger sister succumbed to pneumococcal meningitis as a result of a weakened immune system following bout of influenza. She was 30, very fit & very healthy. Most of us understand that younger people can, and will contract it, and that there is always a risk that it could lead to hospitalisation and maybe even death. But this is true of a lot of infections out there.

Once we are past the crisis stage, we need to think very carefully how as a global community we cope with future infections, because they will happen again. It remains to be seen which policy has been the most effective, many countries have gone about it in different ways. But what we can be pretty certain about is that we can't afford to lock down every time a new virus emerges, at the risk of sounding dramatic, another one in a few years will be received very differently and I expect would lead to serious unrest (assuming this one doesn't, which remains a serious possibility).

 

[yorksrob]

In terms of the economic situation after the crisis, the economy will be in a far better position if people are able to pick up making, buying and selling things as before, rather than starting from scratch and taking years and years to build businesses again.

 

[edwin_m]

Once we are past the crisis stage, we need to think very carefully how as a global community we cope with future infections, because they will happen again. It remains to be seen which policy has been the most effective, many countries have gone about it in different ways. But what we can be pretty certain about is that we can't afford to lock down every time a new virus emerges, at the risk of sounding dramatic, another one in a few years will be received very differently and I expect would lead to serious unrest (assuming this one doesn't, which remains a serious possibility).

One measure could be to enforce quarantine on people arriving from any country that has the sort of animal trade and markets that almost certainly started this off. This would hit China economically and also affect those wealthier Chinese that travel, unless they crack down on the sort of practices that aren't really compatible with a modern global society.

 

[hwl]

There is less and less proof that young people are actually not affected. It's become a misconception.

Young people appear to be less affected, there is a very big difference between that and "not affected". They can be very effective at passing it on while suffering from minimal symptoms.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Young people appear to be less affected, there is a very big difference between that and "not affected".

Agreed. What many seem to find hard in this is that there are few actual absolutes.

 

[hwl]

Agreed. What many seem to find hard in this is that there are few actual absolutes.

Agreed R0 being classic as people struggle to get their head around that it is an average - patient 31 in South Korea inflected at least 35 others.

From limited data sets up to the end of last week there also appears to be a BMI correlation with death rate which might also probably aligns with the other underlying conditions correlations.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

How does that explain the death of 21 year old Chloe Middleton who had "no underlying health conditions"?

Hmmm

I thought she had asthma? I would have thought thats pre existing health condition.

You really think this level of financial crisis isn’t going to affect social and healthcare provision making a huge difference to people’s lives???

A total financial meltdown will most likely cause more hardship and kill far more people than CoV2 ever will. I’m genuinely scared by the financial implications of this crisis and I don’t see how anyone can’t be, not just for myself but for everyone. I’m not sure why when I mention the financial implications people think this makes my concern just about me...
.

Down here there's been a 20% increase to calls to Lifeline(our version of samaritans) in the last couple of weeks.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Reports are that Boris has got Coronavirus.

Let the Raab era begin

 

[DarloRich]

Reports are that Boris has got Coronavirus.

Let the Raab era begin

Johnson remains in charge

Good to see there were enough tests for the PM but not for front line NHS workers. ( i know he is PM and is, as much as i dislike the chap a priority, but the point stands!)

 

[Ianno87]

Reports are that Boris has got Coronavirus.

Let the Raab era begin

Boris will confinue to lead in self-idolation apparently: https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1243496497729191936?s=20

The Prime Minister has tested positive for Corona virus. He has mild symptoms and will self-isolate in Downing Street. but he will still be in charge of the government's handling of the crisis.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Boris will confinue to lead in self-idolation apparently: https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1243496497729191936?s=20

Ah fair enough, I only saw the headline as the notification on the RT app came up on my phone

 

[bussnapperwm]

Johnson remains in charge

Good to see there were enough tests for the PM but not for front line NHS workers. ( i know he is PM and is, as much as i dislike the chap a priority, but the point stands!)

PMs are easily replaceable, NHS workers are less so in my opinion.

 

[DarloRich]

More worrying than the PM being ill is the fact that senior scientific people have potentially been exposed.

PMs are easily replaceable, NHS workers are less so in my opinion.

but hopefully with someone of a higher quality than Dominic Raab!

 

[johntea]

Boris is (perhaps arguably at times granted!) a human, this virus certainly doesn't care what your job is or how much money you have in the bank...

 

[SilentGrade]

Good to see there were enough tests for the PM but not for front line NHS workers. ( i know he is PM and is, as much as i dislike the chap a priority, but the point stands!)

Same with Prince Charles. The U.K.’s testing regime is a joke and nothing will improve until this is acknowledged at the top.

 

[Howardh]

Boris is (perhaps arguably at times granted!) a human, this virus certainly doesn't care what your job is or how much money you have in the bank...

So Basically he's not been following his rules?

 

[bussnapperwm]

So Basically he's not been following his rules?

Seems like it

 

[Howardh]

Thought is, if people follow the rules to the letter, and still catch it - where do we go from there??

 

[DarloRich]

So Basically he's not been following his rules?

hard to isolate/work at home when your home is the nerve centre of the UK government!

 

[JonathanH]

Thought is, if people follow the rules to the letter, and still catch it - where do we go from there??

Where we have always been going - it will work its way through the population - but at a manageable pace - all the restrictions are about managing Covid-19 not eradicating it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where we have always been going - it will work its way through the population - but at a manageable pace

Precisely. We are not trying to stop it, that is basically impossible. We are trying to slow it so that the NHS is not overwhelmed.

 

[Darandio]

Thought is, if people follow the rules to the letter, and still catch it - where do we go from there??

They might have been looking as though rules were in place during the daily press conference with the distancing, don't believe for one minute that these people weren't all behind the scenes rubbing shoulders and shaking hands. And we talking a lot of people.