Cost of Living Crisis ?

[Butts]

"Crisis what crisis" as Jim Callaghan famously espoused just prior to his downfall.

Is there a certain dichotomy between reports of massive queues at Airports which I myself have experienced at Edinburgh, Birmingham and London Heathrow with people off on Holiday and an alleged shortage of cash forcing people to tighten their belts ?

What percentage of the populace are really struggling and not just facing slightly higher bills for Food, Fuel and Utilities ?

These days I work in Security which is not particularly highly paid profession, the rises are more of an annoyance rather than an impediment to my lifestyle. Is the latter probably not true for the majority of the population ?

The way the media are portraying the situation is as if everyone is struggling which I would contend is patently nonsense.

 

[joncombe]

"Crisis what crisis" as Jim Callaghan famously espoused just prior to his downfall.

Is there a certain dichotomy between reports of massive queues at Airports which I myself have experienced at Edinburgh, Birmingham and London Heathrow with people off on Holiday and an alleged shortage of cash forcing people to tighten their belts ?

What percentage of the populace are really struggling and not just facing slightly higher bills for Food, Fuel and Utilities ?

These days I work in Security which is not particularly highly paid profession, the rises are more of an annoyance rather than an impediment to my lifestyle. Is the latter probably not true for the majority of the population ?

The way the media are portraying the situation is as if everyone is struggling which I would contend is patently nonsense.

I suspect many will be making trips using vouchers or flights deferred from the last two years, not necessarily spending "new' money, but already sunk costs. In any case I think the queues are largely caused by staff shortages. A lot more people are traveling this year than the last two, but still below 2019, where such queues were far less common.

 

[Iskra]

Very sensible behaviour. It’s cheaper abroad. Don’t need the heating on in Italy do you and down in the South the cost of living is cheap.

 

[Butts]

I suspect many will be making trips using vouchers or flights deferred from the last two years, not necessarily spending "new' money, but already sunk costs. In any case I think the queues are largely caused by staff shortages. A lot more people are traveling this year than the last two, but still below 2019, where such queues were far less common.

What about a figure as to the number of people who actually struggling - is it an urban myth ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very sensible behaviour. It’s cheaper abroad. Don’t need the heating on in Italy do you and down in the South the cost of living is cheap.

There are times of year you'll likely want aircon, though, and that's as expensive. Do you need it? No, but you don't need central heating either, you can put more clothes on.

 

[Iskra]

What about a figure as to the number of people who actually struggling - is it an urban myth ?

Perhaps they have dispensed with other non-essential spending in order to retain their annual holiday? Or perhaps they saved money during the pandemic, or booked it before the invasion of Ukraine/economic woes began to really take hold and stood to lose their money if they cancelled.

Many people may be travelling to see relatives. friends they haven’t seen for years. We are talking about 2 years of suppressed demand being unleashed. Perhaps due the price hike in domestic hotels/cottages etc, it is in fact cheaper to go abroad and even more so now that testing is generally scrapped.

Plenty of reasons really!

There are times of year you'll likely want aircon, though, and that's as expensive. Do you need it? No, but you don't need central heating either, you can put more clothes on.

I see your point, but personally I would rather do without aircon in Italy than heating in a UK winter, to me aircon is more of a luxury*.

I suppose somewhere out there, there is an affordable country without extremes of climate that could be ideal…

*I arrived in the midst of an Italian heatwave to find our aircon had failed, and we got through it okay. It was less inconvenient than an occasion where my boiler broke down in a harsh winters night in rural UK, but both were manageable.

 

[Lost property]

What about a figure as to the number of people who actually struggling - is it an urban myth ?

I wouldn't say it was an urban myth, quite the reverse with reports of the increased demands on food banks and reports of reduced expenditure on shopping.

As of yet however, what is basically an insidious process, remember it's Summer, so even with the additional costs of heating / cooking and fuel prices at the pumps, plus, for some, the interest rate rise on mortgages, which is yet to make a deeper impact on household finances.

That, and what metric(s) will be used to quantify the numbers affected has yet to emerge.

However, a very unscientific survey, i.e. me, noted the very subdued BH's this year, when the population usually get legless as a matter of course, local pub reporting reduced footfall, and, Motorway Services with significantly empty space at all times of the day and certainly weekends.

 

[Iskra]

I wouldn't say it was an urban myth, quite the reverse with reports of the increased demands on food banks and reports of reduced expenditure on shopping.

As of yet however, what is basically an insidious process, remember it's Summer, so even with the additional costs of heating / cooking and fuel prices at the pumps, plus, for some, the interest rate rise on mortgages, which is yet to make a deeper impact on household finances.

That, and what metric(s) will be used to quantify the numbers affected has yet to emerge.

However, a very unscientific survey, i.e. me, noted the very subdued BH's this year, when the population usually get legless as a matter of course, local pub reporting reduced footfall, and, Motorway Services with significantly empty space at all times of the day and certainly weekends.

People are driving less, from my observations. I am trying to drive less and I am eating out less.

I think you are right that the worst is still to come, when winter comes. It’s possible next summer’s holiday period could be a lot quieter.

 

[DelayRepay]

I am lucky that I earn more than I spend each month, but I have noticed my 'surplus' reducing. And I have cut back a bit but not in any way that has any real impact.

I do wonder how much spending is going on credit cards at the moment, which will come home to roost in a few months when people cannot pay the bill, at the same time as they get an even higher gas/electricity bill and the cost of petrol is well over £2 per litre?

 

[Lost property]

I am lucky that I earn more than I spend each month, but I have noticed my 'surplus' reducing. And I have cut back a bit but not in any way that has any real impact.

I do wonder how much spending is going on credit cards at the moment, which will come home to roost in a few months when people cannot pay the bill, at the same time as they get an even higher gas/electricity bill and the cost of petrol is well over £2 per litre?

I reckon that's about as accurate summary as possible and certainly with credit card spending. There's also a more subliminal aspect here, the trait of "keeping up appearances "...a lot of people will never admit they have financial problems for fear of "losing face " with their peers.

 

[najaB]

These days I work in Security which is not particularly highly paid profession, the rises are more of an annoyance rather than an impediment to my lifestyle. Is the latter probably not true for the majority of the population ?

If it's not affecting you then consider yourself lucky. Inflation running at >9%, fuel prices up >40% and energy price rises of over 100% definitely are a crisis for many people who fall into the "in-work poor" category.

 

[birchesgreen]

"Crisis what crisis" as Jim Callaghan famously espoused just prior to his downfall.

Is there a certain dichotomy between reports of massive queues at Airports which I myself have experienced at Edinburgh, Birmingham and London Heathrow with people off on Holiday and an alleged shortage of cash forcing people to tighten their belts ?

Whats the population of the UK these days? 67 million?

If every single airport in the land was jammed full how many people would that be, a few 10s of thousands?

Need we go on?

 

[MikeWM]

The policies of the last two years made many a lot poorer, but also many got to save rather a decent amount of money through not commuting, not going out, etc. It was a very unequal couple of years in terms of whether you financially prospered or struggled, highly dependent on what business you were in.

As well as many people doing things they'd had to put off for the last couple of years, I'd imagine those who saved some up may now be spending it while they have the chance, especially as rocketing inflation and still-very-low interest rates make buying things *now* more attractive, as in the future that amount of money will be worth quite a bit less in terms of what it gets you.

 

[Butts]

dIf it's not affecting you then consider yourself lucky. Inflation running at >9%, fuel prices up >40% and energy price rises of over 100% definitely are a crisis for many people who fall into the "in-work poor" category.

So what percentage of the working population would you say that applies to, and how do you define "working poor" ?

Whats the population of the UK these days? 67 million?

If every single airport in the land was jammed full how many people would that be, a few 10s of thousands?

Need we go on?

Perhaps try answering the question as to how many people are actually being affected by the COL Crisis ?

 

[najaB]

So what percentage of the working population would you say that applies to, and how do you define "working poor" ?

To quote from research commissioned for the Government:

How many people are in poverty?
Around one in six people in the UK are in relative low income before housing costs (BHC), rising to around one in five once we account for housing costs (AHC).

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn07096/

Not all of them will be working, but they'll all be feeling the impact of higher prices.

 

[Butts]

To quote from research commissioned for the Government:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn07096/

So about 20% of the population or 1 in 5 or less

 

[najaB]

So about 20% of the population or 1 in 5 or less

About that, yes.

And I'd consider 20% of the population potentially being unable to both feed and heat themselves this winter to be a crisis. And don't forget that there's another round of energy price rises on the horizon.

 

[Butts]

About that, yes.

And I'd consider 20% of the population potentially being unable to both feed and heat themselves this winter to be a crisis. And don't forget that there's another round of energy price rises on the horizon.

Do the 80% care about the 20% or is it a case of I'm alright jack ?

 

[Freightmaster]

Do the 80% care about the 20% or is it a case of I'm alright jack ?

What do you think?!





MARK

 

[birchesgreen]

Perhaps try answering the question as to how many people are actually being affected by the COL Crisis ?

I was pointing out that sneering at people at airports doesn't mean that MANY people are indeed struggling.

 

[thenorthern]

I am a bit apprehensive about the support that the government is giving out for energy bills. I personally have spent hours working out ways to save energy at my house with mathematics and stuff meaning my energy bills are less than half what they should be for a house my size. With the support the government is giving though it effectively means for me that all my energy bills are paid for so I essentially have free energy for the year.

Yesterday I was running my air conditioner while using my laptop and watching my television thinking "I am not paying for any of this". While it's nice for me to effectively have free energy it does seem odd that a Conservative government is giving me this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am a bit apprehensive about the support that the government is giving out for energy bills. I personally have spent hours working out ways to save energy at my house with mathematics and stuff meaning my energy bills are less than half what they should be for a house my size. With the support the government is giving though it effectively means for me that all my energy bills are paid for so I essentially have free energy for the year.

Yesterday I was running my air conditioner while using my laptop and watching my television thinking "I am not paying for any of this". While it's nice for me to effectively have free energy it does seem odd that a Conservative government is giving me this.

COVID does seem to have shifted things about a bit - the present Tory Government I believe is taxing more and spending more than the last few Labour ones did!

I'd agree with your principle - we should be giving funding for energy efficiency improvements and relaxing legislation* to allow them to take place.

* Conservation areas may look nice, but any law that requires retention of original single-glazed windows has to go. The aim should be triple glazing everywhere. They can be made to look reasonably nice e.g. new sashes are obviously not original but at least give some of the look. Also, drop the "renovation of a thermal element" building regs inspection for freehold houses - it is stopping people making DIY improvements while being ignored by those who don't like to keep to the law. Technically you have to put in a building regs notice to upgrade your loft insulation - this is plainly ridiculous.

 

[AlterEgo]

So about 20% of the population or 1 in 5 or less

That's about 15 million people! If I walk down the street and pass 100 people and 20 of them are in poverty I am not sure I can defend that as a fair society. Poverty will never be eliminated in a capitalist society but 20% of the population is dire.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's about 15 million people! If I walk down the street and pass 100 people and 20 of them are in poverty I am not sure I can defend that as a fair society. Poverty will never be eliminated in a capitalist society but 20% of the population is dire.

There will always be the odd one*, but society is in pretty bad shape if 20% of people can't afford the basics, i.e. a properly maintained, heated family home (or studio flat/room in a share if single), decent meals 3 times a day, decent non-branded clothing, Freeview TV, some form of Internet access and basic Android phone and the likes.

* e.g. some people don't seem to be able to "hold down" a normal life, and there is only so much help that can practically be given.

 

[thenorthern]

I'd agree with your principle - we should be giving funding for energy efficiency improvements and relaxing legislation* to allow them to take place.

* Conservation areas may look nice, but any law that requires retention of original single-glazed windows has to go. The aim should be triple glazing everywhere. They can be made to look reasonably nice e.g. new sashes are obviously not original but at least give some of the look. Also, drop the "renovation of a thermal element" building regs inspection for freehold houses - it is stopping people making DIY improvements while being ignored by those who don't like to keep to the law. Technically you have to put in a building regs notice to upgrade your loft insulation - this is plainly ridiculous.

The power consumption of each appliance is a major thing. I have always been on Eco 7 which meant I used things like washing machines and dishwashers overnight saving quite a bit of money.

Since the Kyoto Protocol the main obsession has been with light bulbs which yes the old ones used up to 100w although the average was around 50w. That around 1/40th of the power consumption of the average washing machine so really not that much. Saying that a friend of mine has 8 G10 spotlights in her kitchen each using 50w so her lights in her kitchen draw 400w. My kitchen lights by comparison draw 9w.

 

[najaB]

Since the Kyoto Protocol the main obsession has been with light bulbs which yes the old ones used up to 100w although the average was around 50w. That around 1/40th of the power consumption of the average washing machine so really not that much.

The thing is though, it's not the peak power draw (W) that matters as much as energy used (WH). Using your washing machine example, the peak power draw will be during the spin cycle - so say 5 minutes each time it's used, which might be two loads, three or four times a week. So that's 400 x (5/60) x 2 x 3 = 0.266kWH per week.

Contrast that to light bulbs which draw the same load all the time, and will be used for maybe 3 hours a day, every day. So, using a 100W bulb as per your post that is 50 x 3 x 7 = 1.05kWH per week.

So yes, the washing machine has a higher peak consumption but for a typical family the light bulb consumes nearly four times as much electricity.

 

[Ediswan]

Using your washing machine example, the peak power draw will be during the spin cycle

I recently ran my washing machine plugged in via an energy monitor. By far the highest power draw was when it was heating the water. Total consumption for the cycle was 0.43 kWh.

 

[najaB]

I recently ran my washing machine plugged in via an energy monitor. By far the highest power draw was when it was heating the water. Total consumption for the cycle was 0.43 kWh.

Right, I was thinking of a machine that draws hot water from the tap rather than drawing in cold and heating it. Did you happen to note the power consumption while the heating element was on? I'm going to guess it was higher than 400W - maybe 1.6kW?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Right, I was thinking of a machine that draws hot water from the tap rather than drawing in cold and heating it. Did you happen to note the power consumption while the heating element was on? I'm going to guess it was higher than 400W - maybe 1.6kW?

Almost none do now. It's more complex having two feeds (you need two valves, and getting the right temperature is more complex if you typically need to "run the tap" for a bit to get it hot), and heating the water isn't much different from boiling a kettle in terms of power used (the volume of water is not massive in a modern front-loader) so it's not enough to be worth worrying about.

Light bulbs are a funny one. In summer, the heat kicked out is wasted (or actively undesirable, e.g. if you have aircon it'll have to do work to move it outside). In winter it just heats the room (albeit high up) so you'll put slightly less in through heating than if it didn't. But LED bulbs are good enough that there's really no reason to be using tungsten any more.

 

[najaB]

Almost none do now.

Most top-loaders do (basically being American models), but front-loaders tend not to. I was assuming top-loader as the peak consumption was only 400W - I had a look for washing machine heating elements and they appear to be over 1.5kW.