Could 1500v Woodhead electric 26020 ever run again?

[kermit]

'Frinstance, if it was taken to Holland's 1500v network to do some railtours?

I worry that things that go to the National Railway Museum end up sanitised, and bereft of living spirit, like castles "entrusted" to English Heritage.......

 

[Cowley]

I think it’s fairly unlikely that it would work again. It hasn’t been used for over 35 years now and deterioration of its equipment must have occurred during that time to the point that it would possibly need masses of money spent on it.
I reckon the nearest possibility of experiencing something similar again would be if the group in the Netherlands ever manage to get their class 77 - 1501 (27003) back on the mainline, but it hasn’t run for ten years now.

 

[delt1c]

We need top be realistic, yes it would be great to have a railtour behind a 76 and a rake of Mk1's . Howerver where would this take place? More chance of rocket doing a tour of all UK lines.

 

[kermit]

We need top be realistic, yes it would be great to have a railtour behind a 76 and a rake of Mk1's . Howerver where would this take place? More chance of rocket doing a tour of all UK lines.

As I said in the original question, I realise that there are no options in the UK, but somewhere like Holland might be possible? Not with a rake of Mk1s though, granted.....

 

[Ianno87]

*In theory* (very wild theory, admittedly), if it were fully restored could it be used between Pelaw and Sunderland/South Hylton? Or do other issues* prevent that?

*Excluding the obvious ones like how it'd get there or where you'd keep it.

 

[kermit]

*In theory* (very wild theory, admittedly), if it were fully restored could it be used between Pelaw and Sunderland/South Hylton? Or do other issues* prevent that?

*Excluding the obvious ones like how it'd get there or where you'd keep it.

Now that's what I call a railtour! There and back, obviously. If we start planning now, 2031 marks the centenary of the Manchester South Junction and Altrincham Railway's 1500v DC electrification, and would allow time for restoration to running order of the 2 preserved MSJAR EMU coaches.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Dumb question probably, but would it be feasible for the engine to be powered by a generator contained in a coach behind the locomotive?

Then with a dummy pantograph, it could run in the UK, with the original engine.

I suppose the easier option would be to fit 25kv equipment, from an 86 on the scrap heap for example.

 

[xotGD]

The Sunderland line is wired for 1500V DC...

 

[Bevan Price]

The Sunderland line is wired for 1500V DC...

But designed to power trams. Something as powerful as a 76 would probably blow all the fuses (or trip the circuit breakers),........
I think the only option would be to take 26020 on an overseas holiday.

 

[Cowley]

Not knowing a damn thing about electrics and purely from a silly fantasy point of view. Would it be possible to put a pantograph on top of a mk1 and fit it out with equipment that could convert 25KV AC to 750V DC which could then be wired through to a locomotive?
There I’ve said it.

 

[JohnElliott]

Not knowing a damn thing about electrics and purely from a silly fantasy point of view. Would it be possible to put a pantograph on top of a mk1 and fit it out with equipment that could convert 25KV AC to 750V DC which could then be wired through to a locomotive?
There I’ve said it.

That's basically what the pantograph trailer in a class 313 does, so it ought to be possible.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Run it on the Tyneside Metro

 

[Cowley]

That's basically what the pantograph trailer in a class 313 does, so it ought to be possible.

Ah thanks John

 

[TheBeard]

I think it will never run again. Generators and plugs are not technically feasible. As Gresley's last design, and a lovely job restoring it at Doncaster by their apprentices, it deserves its rest.

 

[Cowley]

I think it will never run again. Generators and plugs are not technically feasible. As Gresley's last design, and a lovely job restoring it at Doncaster by their apprentices, it deserves its rest.

Most definitely. This thread got me to read up on them though which I enjoyed.

 

[2392]

Not knowing a damn thing about electrics and purely from a silly fantasy point of view. Would it be possible to put a pantograph on top of a mk1 and fit it out with equipment that could convert 25KV AC to 750V DC which could then be wired through to a locomotive?
There I’ve said it.

The biggest problem there, is, that the Woodhead electrics ran on a 1500 volt supply rather than 750 volt. As has been pointed out in previous messages...... Even says 1500 volt in the title which is quite a give away as to the power supply needed.

 

[TheBeard]

However it is not well known they were 'dragged' with freight trains during maintenance to the Wath branch, by at least 31s,37s,47s!

 

[Cowley]

The biggest problem there, is, that the Woodhead electrics ran on a 1500 volt supply rather than 750 volt. As has been pointed out in previous messages...... Even says 1500 volt in the title which is quite a give away as to the power supply needed.

I really do need to pay attention to what I’m writing sometimes .

 

[billh]

The biggest problem there, is, that the Woodhead electrics ran on a 1500 volt supply rather than 750 volt. As has been pointed out in previous messages...... Even says 1500 volt in the title which is quite a give away as to the power supply needed.

The EM1 traction motors are 750 v , various combinations of 4 motors in series and parallel are used from the 1500v supply for low/high speed operation.
I think that the output from , e.g. an original class 37 main generator is about 800v DC so it should be possible to wire the EM1 motors to the diesel's generator and use it like that. Trouble is the diesel would not then be self powered! Possible but not very practical......

 

[JohnElliott]

I believe an EM2 has run coupled to a battery loco, with the wiring changed so that the batteries supply the EM2, not their own loco.

 

[kermit]

So a couple of Teslas loaded into an old Motorail van, a stout length of copper cable, crocodile clips, job done?! Seriously, with the way battery technology is progressing, just a few shunting movements at the NRM in York would be wonderful, and so much more instructive to the passing hordes of school-trippers than the cold, dead exhibit that it is now.

 

[JoeGJ1984]

Would it be feasible to install a transformer so it can run on 25kV AC OHLE? (This would be similar to trains that can both run on 25kV AC and 750V DC). As said in a programme about the Flying Scotsman steam locomotive, these trains/locomotives are better off actually in operation than a static display.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I suppose the easier option would be to fit 25kv equipment, from an 86 on the scrap heap for example.

Or take 1 destined for the scrap heap, remove a cab and replace it with a 25kv - 1500v DC transformer and semi permantly couple it so the power goes to the 26.

 

[TheBeard]

Any batteries have to be below the sole bar.
Any current cannot be 'plugged in from a van' next to the loco.
It's stuffed and mounted. It has all original Bolier, lovely old Electrics the lot from1950s
Catenary is the only pragmatic solution and its not likely!

 

[kermit]

Any batteries have to be below the sole bar.
Any current cannot be 'plugged in from a van' next to the loco.
It's stuffed and mounted. It has all original Bolier, lovely old Electrics the lot from1950s
Catenary is the only pragmatic solution and its not likely!

Just out of interest, aren't there examples of electric multiple units with pantograph collection on one coach feeding current via cable to coupled power cars? If so, what's the difference?

 

[sprinterguy]

Just out of interest, aren't there examples of electric multiple units with pantograph collection on one coach feeding current via cable to coupled power cars? If so, what's the difference?

It certainly works effectively for the North Tyneside Railway's ex-Harton Electric Railway 550v loco, E4, and it's battery pack coal wagon that allows it to adequately pootle around the yard environs. That's pretty much an order of magnitude in difference in both voltage and power draw, mind, the E4 loco having 4 x 35kW traction motors compared to the 4 x 350kW motors of the class 76. Though I'm assuming that you wouldn't be looking to mercilessly thrash to the limits of its capabilities such a venerable and unique survivor as 26020.

And if as TheBeard states it's all fairly authentic original equipment under the bodywork, then perhaps the loco remaining "stuffed and mounted" is the best thing for it to maintain that authenticity and direct link with its' past, even if those of us either too young or too remote to have experienced pairs of 76s thundering over the Woodhead on heavy coal trains in their heyday might hanker to see even a little activity from the sole survivor.

 

[lyndhurst25]

When Reddish depot closed, the 1500V DC class 506 units were transferred to Longsight depot for maintenance. Class 83 loco number 83009 was used as a 25kV AC to 1500V DC converter at the depot to test the units. After this job finished, 83009 was returned to running order for Euston ECS duties. I suppose then that it would be technically possible for one of the preserved AC locos at Barrow Hill to provide DC power to a restored Class 76 26020!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/90285366@N05/8692056291

 

[Cowley]

When Reddish depot closed, the 1500V DC class 506 units were transferred to Longsight depot for maintenance. Class 83 loco number 83009 was used as a 25kV AC to 1500V DC converter at the depot to test the units. After this job finished, 83009 was returned to running order for Euston ECS duties. I suppose then that it would be technically possible for one of the preserved AC locos at Barrow Hill to provide DC power to a restored Class 76 26020!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/90285366@N05/8692056291

That’s really interesting. I’d never heard about that before. Thanks for that.

 

[TheBeard]

The EM2LS looked at a silent generator in 27000. It wasn't popular with many originalists so she sits doing nothing. I'm not judging their viewpoint at all.
You'd need to de accession 1505, put 27000 in her place at the MOSI, and suffer the flak on this one. I'd go 25KV aC and run it down HS2!

 

[A0wen]

When Reddish depot closed, the 1500V DC class 506 units were transferred to Longsight depot for maintenance. Class 83 loco number 83009 was used as a 25kV AC to 1500V DC converter at the depot to test the units. After this job finished, 83009 was returned to running order for Euston ECS duties. I suppose then that it would be technically possible for one of the preserved AC locos at Barrow Hill to provide DC power to a restored Class 76 26020!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/90285366@N05/8692056291

Wasn't something similar done with an EMU for Metrolink 'exhibition' line on the Fallowfield Loop to provide a low voltage supply to some DLR vehicles to show what Metrolink would be like?