Could class 442s ever go back to SWT?

[Matt Taylor]

These cables between the coaches are the external sign of wifi being introduced to the 450 fleet.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/40172673@N03/16672318271/in/album-72157650676747826/

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Which 442 was it that holds the speed record for a 3rd rail EMU? That one and maybe the first to be built should perhaps be preserved, even if it's just as a static train. Would a class 33 be able to haul a 442 if any 442s enter preservation?

 

[ainsworth74]

Why preserve one? There isn't anything that special about them other than some enthusiasts loving them

 

[cjmillsnun]

Which 442 was it that holds the speed record for a 3rd rail EMU? That one and maybe the first to be built should perhaps be preserved, even if it's just as a static train. Would a class 33 be able to haul a 442 if any 442s enter preservation?

2401 holds the speed record (also the first of the build so two birds with one stone). However if one was to be preserved, I would prefer them to be in the livery and configuration that suited them best. (NSE). I doubt that could happen now as I don't think any of the old seats still exist.

 

[al.currie93]

Why preserve one? There isn't anything that special about them other than some enthusiasts loving them

The world record? As SpacePhoenix just said

 

[notadriver]

Just my point of view here but when Mallard achieved her world speed record, it wasn't something any steam locomotive was going to achieve ever again without special preparation. The same applies to the TGV record of 574 kph. This third rail speed 'record' has been unofficially surpassed before and after this unit achieved its record.

 

[BananaRepublic]

....However if one was to be preserved, I would prefer them to be in the livery and configuration that suited them best. (NSE).

While NSE looked OK on the 442's, in fact a lot better than on most stock where it often looked awful; the smartest and classiest livery would be SWT.
The 442 had a real presence when pulling in to a station in that livery.

 

[Train wasp]

Would a class 33 be able to haul a 442 if any 442s enter preservation?

From memory only class 33/1 can haul 442. You could always use a class 73.

 

[cjmillsnun]

.....

 

[Juniper Driver]

Temperamental units only the 459's can match them (for me) at the moment.442's hold the record for the most breakdowns for me and OOS between 1992-2007.Including a breakdown in Jan 2007.I was also on an early morning Bournemouth which had to go empty to Bournemouth with a tripped door mcb (which would not reset) meaning I could not get interlock.Saw plenty of pigs in trouble as well in later years and was also assisted by a class 73 and was on a train traveling pass that was also assisted by a class 73 when the motors seized up during leaf-fall.

So I will always have fond memories.
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These cables between the coaches are the external sign of wifi being introduced to the 450 fleet.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/40172673@N03/16672318271/in/album-72157650676747826/

Noticed that but didn't know what it was.Cheers.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

From memory only class 33/1 can haul 442. You could always use a class 73.

There's probably a fair load of 33s in preservation around the country, can the equipment needed easily be added to 33s that aren't of the /1 subclass?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Nah, detraction them and send them to TPE on the liverpool-newcastles where they can be pushed/pulled to 110!
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From memory only class 33/1 can haul 442. You could always use a class 73.

Any loco can haul and supply ETH.

Only 33/1 and 73 or any 27 way fitted SR EMU can propel or share control
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There's probably a fair load of 33s in preservation around the country, can the equipment needed easily be added to 33s that aren't of the /1 subclass?

Equipment could in theory be fitted to any loco. But wether the cost would justify it is another matter. The 33's were ideal due to their size and weight.

 

[Juniper Driver]

They can be hauled by a 47.I got assisted once by one.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Well here's the thing. I still think that even though the 442s are old, the potential for something to still come out of them ie re-use up north is still quite high. Put it this way, if there was a push pull sort of thing it would sort the capacity problem straight away. Especially for TPE. It's all about money though. The cheapest option will most likely win.

Thanks,
Ross

 

[al.currie93]

Well here's the thing. I still think that even though the 442s are old, the potential for something to still come out of them ie re-use up north is still quite high. Put it this way, if there was a push pull sort of thing it would sort the capacity problem straight away. Especially for TPE. It's all about money though. The cheapest option will most likely win.

Thanks,
Ross

Exactly, that's why I'm not saying anything either way for definite.

 

[Kentish Paul]

Which 442 was it that holds the speed record for a 3rd rail EMU? That one and maybe the first to be built should perhaps be preserved, even if it's just as a static train. Would a class 33 be able to haul a 442 if any 442s enter preservation?

Didn't a 4-REP reach a high speed through Staplehurst on a nocturnal test run concerning collector shoes. I believe it was checked with a speed gun at either 112 or 117mph. (cannot remember which).

I suppose being a test it wouldn't cpount as official.

 

[notadriver]

That's pretty amazing considering a 395 on the DC has only slightly better performance that contemporary slam door stock such as CEPs.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

That's pretty amazing considering a 395 on the DC has only slightly better performance that contemporary slam door stock such as CEPs.

When 395s are running on DC are they limited in any way (hardware or software) for how fast they can go or how fast they can accelerate or how much power they can draw?

 

[notadriver]

It's the latter. The 4REP had 3200 hp (1 hour rating) for a tare weight of just 175 tons. That's better than a 395 lol.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Quick question has their return to SWT been ruled out yet?

It would be good if they could,I much prefer them to the 444s & 450s on that route.

 

[infobleep]

Are you meaning 459 as shorthand for 458/5, or was it just a typo for 450?

If 8.450 to 10.44 was meant then yes they do. Another extract from the December 2010 rolling stock announcement (for the post 458/5 arrival state) included:

Morning peak
Southampton Airport Parkway to Waterloo (8 car to 12 car)
Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo via Eastleigh (5 car to 10 car)
Southampton Central to Waterloo (4 car to 5 car) so 450 to 444
Evening peak
Waterloo to Poole (5 car to 8 car) so another 444 to 8.450
Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh (5 car to 8 car) so 444 to 8.450
Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour via Eastleigh (8 car to 10 car) so 8.450 to 10.444
Waterloo to Alton (8 car to 12 car)

(Unfortunately SWT's press release in this earlier case did not provide times.)

Sorry yes I didn't mean 450. Shame they didn't provide the times. There is a 18.39 to Poole which is still 5 coaches. I don't know if that had been the one they had wished to extend to 8. May be it's still to happen, given that the refurbishment programme of the 458/5s is behind schedule. It could certainly do with more coaches up to Woking at least.
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Which 442 was it that holds the speed record for a 3rd rail EMU? That one and maybe the first to be built should perhaps be preserved, even if it's just as a static train. Would a class 33 be able to haul a 442 if any 442s enter preservation?

If a 442 enters preservation, why can't it haul itself, providing it's on 3rd rail?

 

[AM9]

Sorry yes I didn't mean 450. Shame they didn't provide the times. There is a 18.39 to Poole which is still 5 coaches. I don't know if that had been the one they had wished to extend to 8. May be it's still to happen, given that the refurbishment programme of the 458/5s is behind schedule. It could certainly do with more coaches up to Woking at least.
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If a 442 enters preservation, why can't it haul itself, providing it's on 3rd rail?

It might catch fire before it gets there.

 

[swt_passenger]

May be it's still to happen, given that the refurbishment programme of the 458/5s is behind schedule. It could certainly do with more coaches up to Woking at least.

I think the new target is Dec 15 (or early 2016). The two original press releases were issued in Dec 2011 (re the 458s) and in May 2011 (re the 456s), when presumably they expected both the 458/5 and 456 programmes to run exactly as planned.

Links here for anyone who wants to refresh what was supposed to happen in the two phases:

23 Dec 2011
"...complete the rolling stock deployment by July 2014, with the first 10-car service operating from May 2013."
http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/extracapacity.aspx

8 May 2012
"...services to/from London Waterloo will be lengthened between March 2014 and December 2014"
http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/extra-capacity-on-south-west-trains.aspx

Of course the exact planned service changes may now be different - for instance the Dec 15 changes on the DMU services west of Salisbury have been superimposed on earlier plans.

Just remembered there was also a table of capacity changes on page 2 of the Spring 2015 customer update here, if you haven't already seen it; and it confirms your 1839 Poole goes up from 5 to 8, so 444 to 8.450:

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/customerupdatespringweb.pdf

 

[D365]

It might catch fire before it gets there.

It seems that distinguishable honour has passed to the Class 458/5 for now

 

[AM9]

It seems that distinguishable honour has passed to the Class 458/5 for now

You mean that the 458/5s are going into preservation before they have finished modifying them?

 

[D365]

You mean that the 458/5s are going into preservation before they have finished modifying them?

I was referring to the notorious tendency for units of any given class to suffer a spate of successive self-combustion incidents; there won't be much preservation going on if they keep going up in flames

 

[RobShipway]

I was referring to the notorious tendency for units of any given class to suffer a spate of successive self-combustion incidents; there won't be much preservation going on if they keep going up in flames

We will probably end up with Class 707's on the Reading route in place of the 458/5's if anymore catch fire.....

 

[D365]

We will probably end up with Class 707s on the Reading route in place of the 458/5s if any more catch fire.....

There is an option for 20 more Class 707s...

 

[Juniper Driver]

You mean that the 458/5s are going into preservation before they have finished modifying them?

Stop it.:-x

 

[Moonshark]

Haven't you heard? All the 442s are going to CrossCountry to be hauled by locos. JOKE