Could SailRail become popular again?.

[route101]

That depends which way you are flying and who you are flying with. BA don't insist on formal ID for domestic flights, including the south of Ireland. But if you're flying into Dublin you need to prove you're a UK or Irish citizen, which means a passport...

Last time i flew into Dublin i only had my driving licence

 

[DanielB]

• Holland - maybe for lads lads lads types breaks in Amsterdam

Flying/Eurostar is quicker and easier for most destinations and that wont change

Eurostar might be quicker from London to Amsterdam, but has the disadvantage that half of your day is already lost: the first Eurostar arrives at 12.22 CET in Amsterdam. Taking the overnight ferry from Harwich to Hoek van Holland however allows for an arrival in Amsterdam just before 10.00 CET when you pass trough customs quickly (otherwise arrival is 30 minutes later).
For the return journey it depends on your destination: getting from Amsterdam to London in the evening is possible by Eurostar, but as it arrives late in the evening in London onward travel to elsewhere in the UK would probably have to take place the following day anyway. Hence, the benefit compared to an overnight ferry is limited then.

 

[DarloRich]

Eurostar might be quicker from London to Amsterdam, but has the disadvantage that half of your day is already lost: the first Eurostar arrives at 12.22 CET in Amsterdam. Taking the overnight ferry from Harwich to Hoek van Holland however allows for an arrival in Amsterdam just before 10.00 CET when you pass trough customs quickly (otherwise arrival is 30 minutes later).
For the return journey it depends on your destination: getting from Amsterdam to London in the evening is possible by Eurostar, but as it arrives late in the evening in London onward travel to elsewhere in the UK would probably have to take place the following day anyway. Hence, the benefit compared to an overnight ferry is limited then.

much more drinking time on the overnight ferry

 

[Bald Rick]

Eurostar might be quicker from London to Amsterdam, but has the disadvantage that half of your day is already lost: the first Eurostar arrives at 12.22 CET in Amsterdam. Taking the overnight ferry from Harwich to Hoek van Holland however allows for an arrival in Amsterdam just before 10.00 CET when you pass trough customs quickly (otherwise arrival is 30 minutes later).
For the return journey it depends on your destination: getting from Amsterdam to London in the evening is possible by Eurostar, but as it arrives late in the evening in London onward travel to elsewhere in the UK would probably have to take place the following day anyway. Hence, the benefit compared to an overnight ferry is limited then.

So basically, lose half the previous evening getting to Harwich, and most of the night being uncomfortable / sick on the boat, to get an extra 2 hours in Amsterdam where you will be completely shattered / feeling ill all day. That’s quite a simple decision!

 

[30907]

So basically, lose half the previous evening getting to Harwich, and most of the night being uncomfortable / sick on the boat, to get an extra 2 hours in Amsterdam where you will be completely shattered / feeling ill all day. That’s quite a simple decision!

Are you a poor sailor? I've used various overnight ferries reasonably often and only had one uncomfortable night in maybe 40-50...

 

[Bald Rick]

Are you a poor sailor? I've used various overnight ferries reasonably often and only had one uncomfortable night in maybe 40-50...

A very, very poor sailor. Most notably travel sick on one of the ‘pub boats’ moored on the Thames. On more than one occasion. And no it wasn’t the drink!

 

[jamesontheroad]

Eurostar might be quicker from London to Amsterdam, but has the disadvantage that half of your day is already lost: the first Eurostar arrives at 12.22 CET in Amsterdam. Taking the overnight ferry from Harwich to Hoek van Holland however allows for an arrival in Amsterdam just before 10.00 CET when you pass trough customs quickly (otherwise arrival is 30 minutes later).

+1

If I leave Harwich on the evening of day one, I can be in southern Sweden 24 hours later. Granted, Eurostar is technically faster from London to Amsterdam, but the ferry makes the nighttime productive in terms of the overall journey.

 

[Bald Rick]

+1

If I leave Harwich on the evening of day one, I can be in southern Sweden 24 hours later. Granted, Eurostar is technically faster from London to Amsterdam, but the ferry makes the nighttime productive in terms of the overall journey.

Possibly handy if you live in Harwich.

Otherwise, you can leave almost anywhere on south east England on the evening of day one, and be n southern Sweden by the late evening of day one. Which is why Sail rail has, and always will have, only niche value.

 

[30907]

Possibly handy if you live in Harwich.

Otherwise, you can leave almost anywhere on south east England on the evening of day one, and be n southern Sweden by the late evening of day one. Which is why Sail rail has, and always will have, only niche value.

The journey London-Malmo is exactly 2 minutes faster on weekdays via Brussels (ignoring check-in times at STP but assuming you don't get up at crack of dawn in Brussels - by losing 2 hours' sleep you can gain an hour).

 

[DanielB]

Otherwise, you can leave almost anywhere on south east England on the evening of day one, and be n southern Sweden by the late evening of day one.

Hmm, that sounds like time travelling
But as already mentioned: your journey doesn't become any faster.

I just looked into some journeys from the UK to Malmö as an example. Leaving on the evening of day 1 in Southeast England obviously means taking for example the last Amsterdam-bound Eurostar of the day at 17.19 from St Pancras, which arrives on Brussels at 20.12. At that late time of day your options to get to Sweden are limited and hardly any of them is really comfortable: one option is to stay on Eurostar till Amsterdam and continue after a short night (departure at 5 in the morning), the alternative from Brussels involves multiple changes in the late evening and even waiting 2 hours in Duisburg in the middle of the night.

A journey via the ferry allows leaving even 20 minutes later from London, and after a full night sleep one can travel significantly more comfortable (more international ICs instead of stoppers) towards Sweden. And that's even with a not very optimistic travel advice, as it is planning with a 2 hour transfer from Hoek van Holland to Rotterdam. However journey times with Metro B from Hoek van Holland to Rotterdam are significantly shorter than 2 hours, which results in a more robust change in Amersfoort than indicated by the journey planner. (For some reasons it gives me the domestic 5 minute change instead of the advised 35 minute, or 20, minute change for international journeys).

 

[Bald Rick]

Hmm, that sounds like time travelling
But as already mentioned: your journey doesn't become any faster.

I just looked into some journeys from the UK to Malmö as an example. Leaving on the evening of day 1 in Southeast England obviously means taking for example the last Amsterdam-bound Eurostar of the day at 17.19 from St Pancras, which arrives on Brussels at 20.12. At that late time of day your options to get to Sweden are limited and hardly any of them is really comfortable: one option is to stay on Eurostar till Amsterdam and continue after a short night (departure at 5 in the morning), the alternative from Brussels involves multiple changes in the late evening and even waiting 2 hours in Duisburg in the middle of the night.

A journey via the ferry allows leaving even 20 minutes later from London, and after a full night sleep one can travel significantly more comfortable (more international ICs instead of stoppers) towards Sweden. And that's even with a not very optimistic travel advice, as it is planning with a 2 hour transfer from Hoek van Holland to Rotterdam. However journey times with Metro B from Hoek van Holland to Rotterdam are significantly shorter than 2 hours, which results in a more robust change in Amersfoort than indicated by the journey planner. (For some reasons it gives me the domestic 5 minute change instead of the advised 35 minute, or 20, minute change for international journeys).

I meant catching a flight to Copenhagen. Much easier.

 

[paul1609]

I meant catching a flight to Copenhagen. Much easier.

And thats about the crux of the matter rail to Sweden whether its via ferry or Eurostar is about the same journeytime from the Southeast as the West of Ireland. Thats had a bargain priced inclusive sailrails fare in place for many years and the same alternatives with the airlines. Sailrail tickets sold are as close to zero as matters and the product only continues because of political considerations.

 

[30907]

Hmm, that sounds like time travelling
But as already mentioned: your journey doesn't become any faster.

I just looked into some journeys from the UK to Malmö as an example. Leaving on the evening of day 1 in Southeast England obviously means taking for example the last Amsterdam-bound Eurostar of the day at 17.19 from St Pancras, which arrives on Brussels at 20.12....

Pending the arrival of the planned overnight train, I wouldn't dream of using overnight trains but leave later and simply book in to the Ibis at Brussels Midi!

 

[AlbertBeale]

And thats about the crux of the matter rail to Sweden whether its via ferry or Eurostar is about the same journeytime from the Southeast as the West of Ireland. Thats had a bargain priced inclusive sailrails fare in place for many years and the same alternatives with the airlines. Sailrail tickets sold are as close to zero as matters and the product only continues because of political considerations.

Does choosing to travel in a way that does less damage to our ecosystem count as a "political consideration"? Or isn't that what you meant?

 

[paul1609]

Does choosing to travel in a way that does less damage to our ecosystem count as a "political consideration"? Or isn't that what you meant?

Im not passing judgement, just observing that the rail journey to Sweden is similar to that to the West of Ireland (and has similar eco considerations), which has through ticketing at bargain pricing (even compared to the UK routes that it utilising). Demand for that option is in my personal experience extremely low, on my last trip to Galway the IE conductor told me that it was the first time he'd seen a through ticket from the UK for about 2 years. I think there is ample evidence that despite the rock bottom prices sailrail demand has continued to decline over recent years even with the Eco awareness.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Last time i flew into Dublin i only had my driving licence

In practice in Dublin, it's more about the accent than anything else. If you don't sound British/Irish and you don't have an ID showing a British/Irish name, then you need your passport or EU ID card. My friend's wife is Dutch and sounds convincingly Irish, and she's rarely asked to produce anything in Dublin Airport as they hear the accent and wave her through.