Could/Should all the Sub-Surface lines merge into one line eventually?

Discussion in 'London Underground' started by NorthKent1989, 29 Aug 2017.

  1. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

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    Wow, you are easily annoyed <(
     
  2. Dr_Intoxicated

    Dr_Intoxicated Member

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    Yes imagine how the District line must upset them
     
  3. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Given it's being split, two of the several royal couples that have divorced would be more appropriate.
     
  4. cjp

    cjp Member

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    Fixed.
     
  5. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Is it? I thought the big stumbling block was the overcrowding it would cause at Camden Town with so many people changing trains?
     
  6. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    You are correct, it is dependent on the Camden Town rebuild.

    Two consultations on proposals for this had failed in the last decade or so; the third currently seems to be progressing well.
     
  7. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Good news, I hope it all goes ahead.
     
  8. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Wow, rather pointless posting:roll:!

    Clearly having two separate Northern Lines through Central London is a recipe for confusion.
     
  9. Dr_Intoxicated

    Dr_Intoxicated Member

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    Might they not rename one of them at the point they were separated? This would be easy once the northern destinations of the two branches are constant.
     
  10. David Emmott

    David Emmott Member

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    It's always seemed odd to me that the tube line which runs the furthest south should be called 'Northern'. Not unlike the Northern line of Merseyrail, although the Wirral extends more southerly.
     
  11. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    To have called it 'Southern' might equally be considered odd in High Barnet. apart from the name already being appropriated.:) Actually, it's a bit like Oxford Street leading to Oxford (eventually).
     
  12. tranzitjim

    tranzitjim Member

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    Now that three of the lines, all share the identical fleet of rolling stock, for the first time in their lives, I guess we can make any rearrangements we would like to do.

    Even with the S8 on the Met line, can include the Met line in any shakeup we want.
     
  13. LU_timetabler

    LU_timetabler Member

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    No we can't Met's S8's are not permitted to operate in passenger service anywhere where they already don't around the Circle due to short platforms.
     
  14. cjp

    cjp Member

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    With SDO surely that is "not permitted at the moment "?
     
  15. tranzitjim

    tranzitjim Member

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    I guess there is little works needed to extend some platforms to handle 8 car S8 trains if we need to extend them as such. In any case, can we not use S7 trains on some Met runs?
     
  16. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    There are some terminus stations where S8s would be outside the starter signal. Wimbledon is an example.
     
  17. cjp

    cjp Member

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    I never thought of that :oops:
    Repeater signal like a fog one but beyond the starter?

    Or simply not worth the effort to standardise trains?
     
  18. Dstock7080

    Dstock7080 Established Member

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    Depots, sidings, terminal stations have had much work adapting from C & D Stock to the longer S7 Stock.

    A great deal of work would be required to make this happen again for S8 Stock, i.e. Baker Street pfms.5&6 require the last 3 doors (1car) of an S7 Stock to remain closed, this would be 6 doors (2 rear cars) to remain closed for an S8.

    Several District Line stations already require 1 or 2 doors both at front and rear of an S7 train to remain closed.
     
  19. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Many, probably most, termini have pointwork immediately beyond the platform ends. If the train couldn't clear this on the way in then it probably wouldn't be able to get out again and even if it could it would block some other moves before it did so. The same is true of some through stations.
     
  20. cjp

    cjp Member

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    Something else I had not thought of :oops:.
    Perhaps bit like being able to land land in a small field OK but it being too short to take off again?. :)
    I will stick with the day job and leave tube things to the experts!"
     
    Last edited: 9 Sep 2017
  21. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    S8's already use SDO on some platforms in Zone 1. They'd have to use even higher levels elsewhere — and I'm not sure at what threshold having large numbers of doors locked out becomes a safety issue.
     
  22. tranzitjim

    tranzitjim Member

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    For as long as you have an auto lockout feature on all those doors, there should not be any safety matter. It is a convenience matter, as people would need to walk through one or two lengths of carriage in order to get off.

    I do trust the S stock all have an automatic detector, which would automatically lock the door out when it detects there are no platform at that door?
     
  23. TFN

    TFN Member

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    There's also another minor issue of installing the "Door not in use" indicator on all the doors in the 2nd and 7th cars of the S8. I'm not sure if they have them already, I never travel on the metropolitan line.
     
  24. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    At some point SDO becomes counter-productive because of the distance people have to walk through the train (which may be packed) to get to a working door and the aggravation of people missing their stop because of it. It would also the evacuation time somewhat if a train had to be emptied at a platform through fewer doors, but evacation at a platform would still be a lot quicker than in a tunnel so that's probably not much of a concern.
     
  25. gallafent

    gallafent Member

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    This reminds me that I was surprised that the red “door not in use” indicators on S7s running Circlesmith trains do not seem to light up until the moment that the doors are released at the station with short platforms, leading (since people weren't listening to the announcements, or were foreign, or hearing-impaired, etc.) to a stampede for the doors that work, and an unnecessary increase in dwell time to allow those people to leave the train.

    Why, I wondered, do those lights not illuminate as soon as the train leaves the previous station, … or of not then, then at least 30s (say) before arrival at the short platform? Ideally, they'd blink a few times too, to attract attention. Time for a software update I'd say.
     
  26. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    There is an audio announcement with a corresponding PIS visual message at the previous station.

    I believe the at-door indicators are interlocked with detection of the platform beacon.
     
  27. TFN

    TFN Member

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    Honestly I forgot they even existed until this thread reminded me of them. They aren't exactly easy to see being directly above the door. I wish they could have installed red lights where the white door lights are, and when the train is at a short platform, the red lights can start flashing. I don't know if that would be effective.

    Currently I find it very amusing when I'm in the last car at Gloucester Road and I see people running for other doors.
     
  28. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    I don't know whether flashing would be appropriate, I would associate that with "please wait, the door opening sequence is proceeding". Solid red with an accompanying eye-level 'Door not in use' indicator would be great, though.
     
  29. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    One thing the Underground lacks that many other metros have is arrows that light up to show the side the platform will be on at the next stop. If they had them they could have something like a red cross with an arrow pointing down the train for areas where the doors won't open.
     
  30. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    Maybe after the 4LM signalling is complete, certainly not before on the SSL.
     

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