Purely anecdotal.
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Could someone explain why ASLEF want Sundays inside the working week?
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Falcon1200
Established Member
Not necessarily; Sundays were outside the working week for my entire railway career and I certainly put some of the extra money earned through overtime into my pension, and was indeed advised to do just that; Giving the triple bonus of not paying income tax on the contributions, getting a bigger pension and retiring early. Many of my colleagues did the same, for the same reasons.
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Understood - people might choose to make brass contributions, which of course are “salary sacrifice”.
dk1
Veteran Member
Just upped mine by an extra £248 per month and Payroll are allowing me to pay a lump sum to backdate this to the start if the financial year.
Quite - for those nearing the end of their career the effective investment returns of doing so are significant due to the tax arrangements. Especially now for drivers post pay rise and back pay where many will be in that effective 60% marginal tax rate band.
(Although let’s see what the Chancellor has up her sleeve on those tax arrangements tomorrow).
Indeed it doesn't....it's exactly what I ( and loads more staff ) actually do. So whilst the Sunday pay for me isn't pensionable, the extra income does go towards longer term savings on which I get tax relief. Though I ve not worked many this year as it happens
dk1
Veteran Member
Yes mate. It’s a no brainer.
Anecdotal … from just about every driver I know (and many forum contributors, see above).
Quite simply few trains on a Sunday and lots of cancelled services will be the normality until Sunday becomes a normal working day, the unions, toc's and Government need to grasp this reality, anyone who tries to travel on Northern on a Sunday will know this. It's broken, totally and utterly broken.
ASLEF quite happy for Sundays inside....but that will come with a price attached for members salaries.
It’s (almost) enough to make you wish you’d voted Tory.
It doesn’t have to be. Sundays outside can work fine so long as staff are properly incentivised.
12LDA28C
Established Member
Another generalisation. Whilst this may be the case on Northern, it is not true of every TOC by any means. The subject of Sundays in the working week and the cost of introducing it at TOCs that currently don’t have it has been done to death on this forum already.
Wyrleybart
Established Member
Disagree. There should not be any incentives. Staff should have a good base salary with no extras. The railway is a 7 day a week railway now unlike 44 years ago when I moved to the Walsall area. Even though there were no trains on Sunday back then there was a No 51 bus about every 15-20 minutes. The weekday service was every hour apart from a couple of peak time extras.It’s (almost) enough to make you wish you’d voted Tory.
It doesn’t have to be. Sundays outside can work fine so long as staff are properly incentivised.
The railway industry has changed and staff need to embrace the changes
greatkingrat
Established Member
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It might work fine most of the time, but you still run the risk of there being certain Sundays when people don't want to volunteer even with enhanced rates payable.
CapabilityB
Member
But is it all affordable?
The drivers getting a great payment means there is less money for others.
Is it just about who has the "strongest" representation?
Reality is the British economy isn't in a great situation at the moment. I'd have thought the union philosophy was for fairness for everyone rather than the elite few who are union members
Majority of problems on Sundays at Northern is lack of guards, not drivers.
It’s both
Well take that up with the TOCs/employers then. They’re the ones who wanted Sundays outside - I don’t know how many times this needs to be pointed out, yet some always feel the need to blame the staff.
The railway also isn’t fully seven days a week, just like many other industries.
Unions primarily represent the interests of their own members. You have previously described railway staff as “grossly overpaid” so I’m not sure you’re entirely objective on these matters.
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Union members an ‘elite’? The Mailgraph Express would love that pairing.
Union fairness is about getting the best deal for all but it won’t be the same deal for all. The huge variety of T&Cs across TOCs hasn’t been driven by any union.
Horrendously divisive comment and wholly untrue.
It's really not. Drivers at Nothern (West side) have contractual Sundays as compulsory overtime which they have to work unless they can get it covered. Guards don't have compulsory Sundays and so if they don't want to work them they don't have to.
Would this mean drivers are getting paid for turning up at the depot even if there’s no guards for the duration of their shift? They’re sat in the depot or at home getting paid?
Highly unlikely people would just be sat at home getting paid. Turning up for duty is very much required.
12LDA28C
Established Member
The majority of staff are well aware of that and are happy to have Sundays in the working week as long as they get another day off to compensate and keep their rostered hours per week the same as contracted. As has been mentioned before, TOCs that currently have Sundays outside won't want it as it's cheaper to cover Sundays on overtime and RDW than employ the many more drivers needed to have Sundays as part of the working week.
You appear to have a poor understanding of the nature of employment. Why should any salaried employee expect not to be paid for turning up to work just because there’s no work to do?
They do indeed turn up for work as required. After all that's what they are contracted to do....
We are sat in depot .....at mine last Sunday, I counted 10 staff in mess room with no driver duties because of lack of guards. We were watching football!!
I can guarantee that every TOC that doesn’t have Sundays in some way committed wants them committed. It’s not the TOCs.
My mistake, apologies.
dk1
Veteran Member
Of course they get paid regardless. You are expected to be sat spare in or near t the messroom, but usually get on a flyer.
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Taplowgreen
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Reading that does make you blink a bit when you read drivers elsewhere in this Forum seeking ways to keep their annual income under 100k to avoid additional tax! Perhaps the "price" is already sufficiently high............or how much higher do you think it should be?
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